Screenwriting : Anyone else but me CG'd out? by Cheryl Allen

alternatively, What have you loved recently that wasn't CG heavy?

I have a couple of Las Vegas stories I'm working on and a "what if" drama I'm working on involving Hitler. one of the Las Vegas things will be CG heavy, I think, but the other one, not at all--very indie feeling. Random, but welcome to my world. :)

"Manchester By the Sea" comes to mind as a recentish movie that fits for me.

I highly recommend “A fantastic woman” if you are not scared of subtitles. Also “Moonlight” was a revelation for me. My husband still loves all the Marvel stuff coming out every year, I was done at Iron Man 2.

Enjoyed Manchester as well, Cheryl Allen . 3 Billboards also. Don't think it's a coincidence that both of those screenwriters have written acclaimed plays as well. Character rich stories.

Not just CGed out, but Marveled out. I'd like to watch some more grown up movies, not created by a comic book or video game. I have a few scripts I'm finishing (see my log-lines) and others I'\m just waiting to begin.

What's worse are these "amazing actors and actresses" are receiving multiple money offers to be leads in interesting indies, but would prefer to be the 5th banana in a tentpole. Just one variable that's damaging the foreign presales market.

Agreed. There are many great indies out there, but very little support for indie screenwriters and/or producers. If you want to get yours made, you have to cleverly figure out how to do it yourself.

I remember Sam Shepard saying he was doing less and less acting because there was so little good dialogue out there. When you can’t write - let the computer blow it up for you.

Certainly part of it, Dan, but, at times, other politics at play as well.

Going through this as we speak. On a surface level, I agree agents want to put their clients in bigger budget films - More money for the talent, more money for them. But, awards considerations, relationships, and many other factors come into play as well.

There is one upside to these comic superhero films. Those actors will be forced to prove themselves as good actors again when the general public finally has their fill of DC comic films.

Casting 2 projects at the agencies as we speak, Dan, and I've seen it all ways. We've had reads with no money offers. We've had reads with over market offers. We've seen agents beg us to allow actors who need the bump, but don't have the foreign sales value to let their clients read (and at seriously discounted rates) and we've had the door slammed on us with some so-called A-listers who get dozens of offers a week. Not completely disagreeing with your points at all, just find them to be a bit...blanket.

I agree, Dan...And those are few and far between these days.

Breaking Bad is a great example of a low budget series that has done extremely well. Aside from the odd explosion and splatter of blood, it all happens in a place that already exists. Limited makeup, costumes and set, but a fantastic story.

There was nothing low budget about Breaking Bad, one of the highest $ per episode on cable tv

This ^

Breaking Bad supposedly averaged 3mil an episode, which is not unusual these days. There are a lot of reasons for that, but sets and such probably rank low on that list. If the story took place on another planet where aliens cooked alien meth and there was tons of cgi and crazy makeup and costumes the show would have cost a lot more. Comparatively, it’s a low budget success, especially when compared to other shows of equal success that cost more to make.

I read the other day that Jerry MaGuire would not get made today. It would be passed on due to no action, CGI, super heroes, no sequel potential, no merchandise, no showrides etc. The days of making a good film that tells a good story in an engaging way (no matter what genre) have become harder. I have had 2 of my scripts receive great feedback, great notes by several studios and producers but I am told numerous times - my script is 10 years too late or 10 years too early. Sadly we have several more years of CGI/comic book stuff to get through. But people are tiring, hence the success of smaller indie markets, netflix etc where characters and story - not fx - are central to the film.

I am working on LISTS - A recent widower who constantly writes 'to-do lists' to help him function from day to day has his planned and controlled life throw into chaos when a free spirited woman and her children move in next door.

I am working on SOME KIND OF NOTHINGNESS - A Town Planner is forced to take a job in a bleak, depressing, run down manufacturing country town. After resistance from Councillors to use public art to turn the town around, he inadvertently forms an alliance with a local reporter. Together they risk their jobs and arrest to conduct a secret guerilla urban renewal program under the cover of darkness.

The above is a true story of my life as I am that town planner.

Pete, I love both of those concepts and would love to see them to fruition. That's exactly the kind of quirky and heartfelt story I seek out.

Fingers crossed Cheryl. Had some interest in my true story. Well by interest I mean some people have said as soon as its ready they wanna see it. But no options or someone saying they'll pay me to write it. Which is to be expected when you are uncredited and unrepresented. I watched 'what we did on our holiday' the other week. Reminded me how good a non-cgi, non-comic book movie can be.

RB, Dan, I am having this exact problem. I am in development of my film The Manny. I did the first table read with S32 members and wrote an article about it here about two years ago. Since then I have been working on producing it. I currently have a distributor and am at the point of funding. I am working with a casting director and we have made many inquiries and two actual money offers. The distributor/foreign sales partner I am working with has very strict needs from the cast. The people they want are not easy to get. The budget is 3 million, so there is good money, but not the multi-millions they can get from a big budget studio film. (My film will also shoot in four weeks so the commitment is much smaller.) While our offers are being considered seriously (I know because they are taking their time before answering) it is taking time to find the right actor who pushes everyones buttons (distributor, financiers, director) and is available and willing to do (take a chance on) a small, indie romcom.

I think location plays a huge part. there are hundreds of non-cgi indie movies at my local theaters.

Do people who complain that there isn’t any good movies actually go to the movies? Support indie films by buying a ticket.

Robert Rosenbaum dealing with a similar situation on one project and we have the funding in place and are making serious money offers. At times, it's a numbers game. 5 years ago, there were more valuable actors as it relates to the foreign presales market. And those actors were being courted by the studios and other independent film producers. Now they are also being courted by networks and streaming platforms offering them big money for prestige limited and term series. It's not an easy climate, but one you have to keep punching through. One thing I would say regarding your post, don't take the period between the offer and getting your answer as a sign of interest. We've gone well over a month without an answer and speculated that Actor X was interested only to find out later the agent never even passed the screenplay along. Put time limits on your offer. If you don't have a response within a few weeks, let the agent know if you don't have an answer within a week, you have to move on.

Richard "RB" Botto - Yes, we put one week limits on the offers, but no one seems to adhere to that. LOL - My casting director does have relationships with the agents and managers and checks with them regularly, so I know at least the actors are seeing the package. It is some comfort to know that this is not a problem exclusive to my script!

One week is a little tight. We usually check in 2 weeks out and give them a week leeway after at most.

It’s been two years since the discussion of comic-book films and films that tell a story as opposed to blow up everything in the story (

So write high concept scripts that don't require special effects. Probably a better market for those because if you have limited locations and speaking roles they can be made on lower budgets. Go through last year's Top Box Office films and make a list of films that were successful and didn't rely on FX and were not written and directed by the same person or based on an existing property. That gives you an idea of what you can do.

Planning a neo-science-fantasy story with elements reminiscent of Spaghetti Westerns - think movies like "A Fistful of Dollars" or "Django" mixed with tropes from classic British horror films from the 1970s.

After Wonder Woman 1984, I know I'll be tapped out on comic book films. I'm working on paranormal horror and dramas with now superheroes. LOL~ They will be about humans with layers and interesting backstories.

I have been CGI'd out for the last ten years. How about some good dialogue and interaction for a change.

I just have a cocky (code for a**hole) producer I tried to pitch my non cgi scripts to. He said he couldn't help me because I probably didn't even now the difference between "a film made for the film industry" and "a film made for the movie biz.." Don't know why I replied but I said it was basically made for money versius made for art.

He came back with a riddle I told him I would answer when I got produced and had my official decoder ring.

he then wrote me a two page email saying that difference wasn't what I said, but i basically was what I say.

Here's what I'm getting at.

I looked at this guysbio nd he had over 40 movies produced - everyone has CGI and action. None are very good, but they SELL, so he can think he's good.

finally, the reason actors take third and fourth place roles in big action flicks is they're franchises. They are signed and guarenteed multiple films at big bucks. because it has an imbedded following it can never fail. If they take that "actor's" role and it fails it can affect their future income.

Boy was on on a tirade :)

John Iannucci Nothing wrong with that, we all need to unleash and let the volcano erupt from time to time. :)

Freddy Wong has a good video on this subject. He makes a very good point that its not CG itself that is ruining movies but the fact that big studios use VFX now as a crutch so they don't have to improve their storytelling and that when there is a good story and great characters the audience can even forgive and overlook bad visual effects.

As someone who got their bachelor in visual effects, you would think i would be fine with this trend but it kind of pisses me off even more. Why? Because my people (vfx artists) are underpaid, under credited, underrepresented and expected to work miracles with the "fix it in post" mentality while my other people (writers) are allowed to and even encouraged to wallow in mediocrity rather than push boundaries and go above and beyond with their storytelling capabilities. I mean look--there are very few, if any, brilliant ways to write a car chase, or a kung fu or superpowered fight scene. The more of that action flick crap you try to throw in the less room you have for your characters, or to even write something new and groundbreaking. But if you actually do find something creative you might be surprised how you can use visual effects to enhance the experience, even if it is something small--especially if it is something small. In my opinion, and this goes counter to the common practice in the industry now, visual effects are something that should be used as little as possible to achieve the best possible result. That means getting REAL performance from your actors instead of expecting an animator to get the whole depth and complexity of human emotion, REAL grit and texture from your footage. REAL magical color and beauty from your skies and oceans instead of simulating them... REAL places and lighting, using set extensions where necessary instead of full 3D environments. If something can be pulled off practically, it should, because this will lend all the more realism to the things you do digitally too, ground them in something physical.

What i have written recently is a pilot that can be shot for 10,000$ because it relies on minimalism... only a few characters, a few locations, a few practical effects, and 2 special effect scenes. I wrote it because i'm interested in something powerful that can be made realistically with little resources. Nobody has to believe in me for this to happen. Nobody has to put their faith that this will sell or develop an audience, they can see for themselves once it's done. Don't expect anyone to see a good deal till it's already closed. Thats my mentality now.

Oh and i might add that if they actually let VFX guys write and direct movies more often we might get more "surprise" hits like deadpool.... studios held Tim Miller back for a decade, freaking Tom Rothman with his giant action blockbusters couldn't see how a low budget film for niche audiences directed by a VFX artist that was actually faithful to the source material for once could ever become the highest grossing R rated film of all time. Thats because no one asks the post guys on their opinion and often times the only part of the writing process with any merit is the part propped up by the VFX guys who insert all of this detail and history and backstory into an otherwise lifeless and soulless world, filling every newspaper, every crack and dent in each prop that tells its history, every part of every building and city that shows its age or character. VFX guys are the best writers in the industry, and at best their work which takes hundreds of hours to be on screen for a couple seconds is ever going to be discovered as an "easter egg". The WGA went on strike and the movie industry kept chugging. But can you imagine how fucked they would all be if the post guys went on strike? Hollywood would collapse in a single day.

There are plenty of independent films playing every year for those who are not interested in the Blockbusters or the CGI or the Superhero genre. I do agree with what Dan MaxXx said - part of it is where you live. Obviously in New York City - and even New Jersey - there are plenty of art house theaters that play these types of movies. But, my experience has been if you have to drive an hour OR if you go to a local Film Fest, which just about every state has one or more, you can find these films. If you are complaining about lack of quality dialogue or looking for specific art house films and films in limited release, chances are you can find them somewhere. And, Dan is right, support Indie film. Buy a ticket, bring a date, bring a friend ... heck go in a group. Do those things and these small limited release films WILL come to more venues. And, I admit in the New York Tri-State area, we are spoiled. BUT STILL, I know a lot of people who are interested in screenwriting and filmmaking that can't seem to use the internet to look up local Film Festival schedules. I know because I have attended a lot of Festivals in my time - regardless if I had a Film in them or not - and I see people who want to be in the industry that are friends on FB with people connected to the Festival and they still claim ignorance. "I didn't know that was this weekend." My point is, if you seek them ... you will find them. I hope all of the Indie-Starved Screenwriters/Filmmakers find their respective art-houses! And, folks, STAY POSITIVE! GOD BLESS and STAY FRESH!!! <3

Sam that was an excellent comment

Thank You John Iannucci ! GOD BLESS and STAY FRESH!!!

Cheryl, I wholeheartedly agree. I'll take a good story over special effects any day of the week.

Feb 14th 2020. Currently playing near me: Parasite, The Photograph, Portrait of a Lady on Fire, Downhill,The Lodge, Uncut Gems, Honey Boy, The Farewell, The Gentlemen. Little Women, Enter the Fat Dragon

Dan MaxXx proving that if you seek them, they are there. I have to admit I haven't heard of Enter the Fat Dragon. Karate comedy?

Sam Borowski Donnie Yen in a fat suit.

Dan MaxXx Donnie Yen in a fat suit is a MUST SEE!

Dan MaxXx thank you for that. You just made my day. LMAO

As for the question at hand, I'm currently working on 2-3 screenplays that are mostly non-CGI. The CGI aspects mostly involved green screen and dragons. However, I also have a few ideas for shorts that have no CGI involved whatsoever.

https://www.amazon.com.au/1629-Mutiny-Batavia-Henry-Zanden-ebook/dp/B01F.... This definitely a GREAT story and well told.

Cheryl, I'm working on a script where a math teacher at an all-girls' Catholic high school here in Omaha wants to fill a void in her school's activities by forming its very first jazz band. It's called "Bleeding Gums," and I'm 40% of the way toward the finish line.

If it ever gets produced (and darn tootin' I'm working on getting it there), I'll be a goner if it's got any CGI in the finished product.

All the VERY BEST to you, Cheryl! Glad you're on Stage 32!

Movies are shared dreams. Not reality. So - going back to Meilies and the birth of cinema, there have been special effects.

No CGI in my "Vox Populi" script (a 1980s-inspired action/thriller set in a post-Brexit Britain) - currently getting a rewrite and a new title, "Anticitizen 1". :)