Okay, guys. I'm in need of some advice. I can't decide between writing my story as a novel or a screenplay. Now, I'm fully aware you can't make that decision for me and all that jazz. That's not what I'm asking for. I'm asking for wisdom.
I have been trying to write this story for almost two years now. The story itself is fine and plotted out. It works. However, the problem, is the medium. I keep trying to write it as a novel, but I feel like I'm pretty dang terrible at prose writing. I just can't seem to fill in a lot of the inner monologue, deep POV kind of stuff. It's just not working for me.
This has led me to believe that maybe, just maybe this story is a screenplay, especially given the fact that I see and hear the story in my head, rather than the deep, deep thoughts of the characters. I know what they are feeling and what they are thinking, but it all comes to me in visuals and dialogue.
However, what's stopping my progress there is the fact that I'm not feeling really confident that anything is going to come of writing this screenplay. As in it might never see the light of day, and thus, I'll have wasted my time writing it. I'm kind of feeling life pressing in on me and I don't want to waste my time.
Then again, the same could be said for the novel. I'm a struggling writer ( I write content for various online publishing/news platforms) so I have a very, very tiny budget with which to promote any novel I self-publish, and thus, the book may go completely unread as well.
Anyway, I'm in a stalemate and this sucks. I want people to enjoy the stories I make. I just don't know how to make that happen in either medium, so I'm stalled. I've been flirting with the idea of writing the screenplay and if it doesn't sell within a certain number of months, writing up a radio drama script from it and producing it as a podcast, which I could do.
I don't know. Anyone else ever been in this position? How did you think through it?
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If we look at statistic, nothing ever comes from screenplays as they rely on others to make them happen (Producers, Actors, Studios etc).
A novel you can self publish for free on Amazon. If it finds and audience then do the screenplay. Prose is also a great way to iron out story.
I vote Novel. It will see the light of day. Statistically your screenplay never will.
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Most of us are running the risk of writing something that will never be read/produced. Don't allow fear to dictate whether you do or don't do something. That's why it has to be for more than that. It's gotta be for you too.
As far as the medium, from the way you describe the way you are visualizing it, it sounds like you'd be better off writing it in script form.
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You’re worried about automatic vs manual when your real problem is you’re not a confident driver. Pick one and finish the first draft—all of it. This will help you get to know who you are as a writer so you can approach such issues with greater confidence in the future. If you’re worried about wasting time by focusing on one and not the other, don’t. Time spent on either won’t be wasted if you learn from it.
Craig...I agree with your assessment of a novel seeing the light of day. The problem is, I don’t feel like I have a prose kind of voice. I don’t like getting into the head of my characters and doing deep pov ect. I’d end up writing like Dashiell Hammett and being very objective and distant in my pov. If folks would read writing like that I’d be all about it. Then again, I’ll never know if I don’t try.
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As someone equally analytical and creative, I get it. But everything worth risking involves taking a leap of faith. Or living with a perpetual "what if I'd only..." mental loop tormenting you for eternity. :) In all seriousness, I'd highly recommend that you start with Robert McKee's seminal book STORY. Not only will this help you determine whether you are a novelist, playwright, or screenwriter in a New York nanosecond, it will also lay a solid foundation in story principles and the craft of screenwriting. Things you'll want to have down pat before plunging into the fray since, as I'm sure your practical side has informed you, this is just about the most competitive environment known to mankind. C'mon in, the playground might be crowded, but everyone is welcome!
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"Seeing" and "hearing" a story doesn't make it a screenplay. Is the story a narrative built from the missions of it's characters, and from all the little actions they take to prevail in those missions? If so, THAT's a screenplay. If this is still a story built out of themes, ideas, and events, then no matter how visual it may be it's still a novel.
Jean...i just got the book based on your recommendation. What about the book helped you decide screenwriting was for you?
Funny you should ask! VERY long story short - I was writing stage plays and calling them screenplays. Somehow I'd managed to still garner some attention, but I knew that if I was to break on through to the successful side, I'd have to spend time mastering "the craft". I love a challenge, so that was the hook. As a native NY'er used to speaking my mind, "subtext" seemed like a foreign language. But again, I love a challenge. So here I am.
Tennyson...would you read a novel that was from a distant, objective POV that didn’t dig into characters’ minds and just used action and dialogue to discern character motivations.
If it was good, I’d read it. Why do you think the deep POV is a necessary element of a novel? I’m asking out of pure curiosity. I’ve never studied novel form. But I do like Hammett, Chandler, Gibson and the like and I don’t think deep perspective is a priority of any of their works.
Stephen Floyd To be honest, the main reason I'm thinking this is a necessary element is because that's how the vast majority of novels are that sell. I obviously want people to read it, and that means making sales, and to do that, you have to give folks what they want.
I've done a little bit of research about this topic and it seems a lot of people find works that don't dig into the character's mind, pov, and motivations from their perspective, get bored with the books.
Personally, I don't know if that's only a small percentage or a large one at this point. If I knew there was some kind of market for it, well, I'd just target those individuals and go for it, but it has to be worth it to me. And if people aren't going to read it or recommended due to a stylistic choice, then, for me personally, it doesn't feel like it would be worth it.
Though I'd really love, LOVE to write that way. It's what's natural to me and flows easily. Hence why I'm torn lol.
Michael Cantrell I think you are answering your own question. If you are not novelist you are like me, stuck in the screenplay format.
I have a 50% completed novel. All the plotting is done. All the chapters are set out in dot points (some are even completed) . I just can’t write it. I know I should, like I should go jogging more. But I just can’t bring myself to do it.
Craig D Griffiths I love the writing of Dashiell Hammett. The Maltese Falcon is the way I'd write a novel, where you don't get any clues into the character's thoughts other than describing facial expressions, actions, and dialogue.
It's sort of similar to how a screenplay is written in some respects. I just don't know if there's much of an audience for that style of writing these days. Then again, maybe I shouldn't care and do what I want for me and see how it goes lol.
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Just start writing it in a screenplay version - dedicate one week, one or two hours each day - and see if the screen play starts to develop. Then you'll know how you feel writing in that format.
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Hi, Michael. First, write the thing. Just do it. Write it for yourself. Do what makes you happy. Writing is never a waste. Every bit, the good, the bad, the ugly, it all helps to better hone your craft. Second, stop the nonsense of worrying about if it will sell or not. Seems you are putting the cart before the horse, yes? ‘Cause if you never write it then you may never know, right? And... If you don’t write it, it will always hang over you, that idea, that goal, that thing you always wanted to do but never did. That’s sad. Writing something to completion is a huge accomplishment. Enjoy your own victories. Third, if your gut is telling you that screenwriting may be the better medium for you then go for it. Give it a try. Who’s stopping you? Rough drafts are for you and no one else. Plus, if it’s a story that appeals to you chances are it will appeal to others. Truthfully, no one knows for sure if something will sell or not. There are no guarantees. To be an artist is to be brave, yes? It’s a leap of faith. So leap.
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Michael Cantrell , if you want to enjoy the stories you make, how can you if you don't write the story. As Beth Fox Heisinger justly said, write it first because in the end, the biggest regret you'll have is you didn't do the job. And writing is never a waste of time cuz investing in yourself is the most important investment you'll ever make in your life.
Beth Fox Heisinger Good words, Beth. I just need to pick a direction and get on with the show, commit to what I'm doing, no matter how awful it might seem, and complete the draft. Then see what I can do with it and if it's really as bad as I feel it is or if I'm just being overtly critical due to anxiety about how others receive the story.
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Hey, Michael. You’re welcome. Happy to be helpful. ;) Right. You gotta focus on the work and put aside any anxiety. It’s difficult sometimes, I know, we all know. But if you are consumed with chasing what you think other people may want you may never find your own voice and/or your unique take on a story or genre or whatever you end up creating. Originality is highly sought after. Artists are greatly needed. Seems contrary and flippant, but in a way, you gotta “not care” what people think. ‘Cause not only do you need to know and meet industry expectations, of course, but you need to do so with your own sense of originality. It’s hard to foster your own creative growth and develop your own barometer for what is good and what is bad writing if you can only gauge yourself by what others think. Consider all the incredible voices and artwork that would not be in existence had the creators listened to naysayers and critics. They followed their own true north. Anyway, above all else, have fun. Fulfill your own happiness, first. Enjoy writing. This project may or may not be “the one” but it could be the start of something, right? The beginning of possibility. Leap, don’t leap. At the end of the day, it’s really up to you. ;) Best wishes on all your creative endeavors!
Write it first, Michael. That way you have something to show for your efforts, possibly a marketable product to make a few bucks on or at least give you street cred for taking the time to get in the game instead of dream about it. Talk is cheap. Besides, you will have given your story depth and life while it is running around your brain. When you go to screenplay all that information fill of what matters to the reader is not as important on a Final Draft type template, so to speak. Hope that helps to some degree. D.B.
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Well said, Beth. I completely agree that "Artists are greatly needed." Now more than ever. And one would hope that "originality is highly sought after" somewhere.
But keeping it 100, that is sadly not the case with many of the major studios, that are now run like global corporations, and so are forced to put profit potential above all else these days. Which is why we see so many sequels and reboots.
The good news is that distribution models are expanding and evolving. The even better news is that as consumers of media, we can effectively force the corporate structure to reform by refraining from spending our hard-earned dollars on fluff. (Which recent trends seem to indicate is exactly what we're doing.) When we collectively stop eating, they'll be forced to change the menu. THEN we'll start to see more creative/innovative/original offerings served up on film. - Just like we now see on television.
Don Coulson You're right, man. Talk is definitely cheap. The big difference between someone who became a successful writer and someone who didn't, is they finished the script/novel/whatever. I just need to get it out of my head, stop analyzing it and comparing it to everything else, and then see where things go from there.
Beth Fox Heisinger I've heard so much about writing to market and all that sort of thing and about how this particular style is what sells or doesn't sell, that I've stopped wanting to make the art for me and my own pleasure, instead focusing on creating something everyone else wants.
That really does take the joy out of it. I ought to just stop worrying about it and take that plunge. Write for me first. If the style doesn't work for someone else (thinking of novels here) then that's okay. I want to try a lot of different things. I also want to write the screenplay. Maybe I'll just do both lol.
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P.S. - The key to maintaining your artistic integrity is to never be a sellout, and personal integrity - to not become a sycophant. Always treat everyone with equal respect, regardless of what you may or may not stand to gain from them. Those are the true marks of good character.
...And I'd argue that you have to be one to write one. ;)
*Some will immediately take offense to this because they write for reasons other than self-expression, and that's perfectly okay. But an artist is mainly motivated by one thing. And it's not ego, fame or fortune. That said, if well-deserved pay comes your way, you've earned it, so enjoy it!
I vote for writing them both. Why do you to choose? Write the book, create a screenplay from it. Create a screenplay, then make the book to go along with it. All writing takes time, there is never a guarantee that it will sell. There is so much to writing and hoping for success. Behind every successful novel and screenplay is countless hours of marketing and getting yourself out there.
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Appreciate that Jean, but sorry, I just don't share your cynicism, nor your opinion and thoughts about being a "sellout." Sheesh. I certainly cannot claim to know what motivates any one artist, and neither can you nor anyone else, really. That is the individual's prerogative. No need to pass judgement. Originality, voice, they are sought after by major studios. It is "the case." Indie directors are being hired and brought in to give new voice and life to projects, franchises, etc, directors like Patty Jenkins, Taika Watiti, and David Sandberg. Look, sequels and reboots will never go away—I too find some of it frustrating. Gawd, is nothing sacred?!!! Lol! But... keep in mind, their profits help companies fund other smaller projects too, yes? Major studios own smaller studios. Plus those films create paying jobs for hundreds and hundreds of people—film crew, stunt people, makeup artists, special effects artists, costuming, staff, etc. That's a good thing. And... sorry, I disagree with you wholeheartedly—there are a ton of great series and films right now! Great offerings! I'm blown away by the options out there. Just check out what's showing on streaming services. What's coming out of festivals. What's being shown around the world. There are plenty of options for whatever audiences are looking for and a demand for more and more original material. Plus there are more available means for anyone and everyone to produce work and distribute it themselves, YouTube, etc. Major studios aren't the 'be-all and end-all.' Oh, but I digress. I certainly do not intend to spin this thread into a different direction.
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Michael, anyone will tell you, do not chase markets. Why? Because if you are chasing what is currently showing or trending, then you are already way behind. Sure, you can take note on what did well at the box office or bestseller list, how critics and audiences responded, but again, that doesn't necessarily help you nor fully inform your creative process. Look, you gotta start somewhere, and writing from your own interests, what excites you, what fascinates you, what intrigues you will translate on the page—novel, script, or both. Find what inspires YOU! :) Again, best wishes!
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Michael, I'm not qualified to tell you whether or not the novel works - but I have personally read plenty of novels that don't have a lot of interior monologue. What I CAN tell you is whether or not a screenplay works... and I wanted to call your attention to an overwhelmingly common way in which novelists who shift their focus to screenwriting wind up creating something nonfunctional. I hope it helps!
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Again, good words Beth Fox Heisinger. I'm going to just get started on the novel first, then take that and make a screenplay from it. I want to invade both if I can lol. I think I'm just going to unleash my creativity and just go with it. I can look at it when doing a second draft and see if it's what I want and if not, what I can do to fix it.
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:) HOT BUTTON ISSUE CLARITY -- I broke my own rule of never painting with a broad stroke on that one! My bad. Especially since it's such a loaded term that no doubt has different connotations to different people. So for clarity's sake, let me just say that what I meant by "don't sell out" is precisely what you and others have said here - don't write for the market, write for yourself. On a personal level, this means focusing on writing something meaningful, not marketable. - Since I have to believe that if it's a unique and interesting expression, it WILL find a market.
So no, I'm not cynical in the least. But sadly, those are the facts as expressed by studio heads themselves, and anyone new to this industry should consider this. You're right, of course, the indy market is a viable option, but it's a self-funded one, if you want to direct at least - so naturally many screenwriters don't start there. I also did say that there is good news in that distribution channels are expanding and evolving.
What I neglected to say though, but will say now, is that there does seem to be one exception to the nearly impenetrable studio firewall, and that is...
Write a kickass script they can't ignore!
Cheers
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Oh Michael. Writing this story wheather in script or novel will absolutely not be a waste of your time. You will gain something from it after you've completed writing. Discipline, experience and overall possibly a better writer. All professional writers began as amateurs. Who cares if no one may pick it up or it never sees the light of day. If you truly truly want it and want to climb out of the struggling writer's category. Go! I don't care if it take you 20 more stories that never see the light of day. If you have to write 20 more to write than 1 gold, then so be it. If you truly want to tell the story you would've started by now. STOP making up excuses and thinking of negative situations and just start writing. NOW! You are the only one stopping yourself. NOW IS THE BEST TIME TO START. NOT TOMORROW, NOT YESTERDAY BUT TODAY.
Derek Reid That's pretty much what I lean toward as well. I don't really feel my descriptive prose is as sharp and I find describing a lot of things tedious. I just want to get on with the story and not waste so much time describing things. And while I know what my characters are FEELING, describing their exact THOUGHTS, just doesn't come naturally to me at all.
That's why If I do write a novel, it's going to be very minimalist and from an objective point of view like Dashiell Hammett or Ernest Hemingway. It would almost be screenplay like and very fast-paced. I'm thinking of doing both, but starting with the screenplay. If I enjoy it immensely, that might be the format for me.
Well, I've actually written some stuff that way and I really do enjoy it, especially how fast it moves when you're crafting scenes.
If the story is important to you then write the novel, when it is finished and you self-publish you will have a public document you can share with loved ones, a visible testament to your toil and sleepless nights.
If you write the screenplay you will probably spend the next several years of your life privately rewriting it, spending money of coverage and script notes trying to get it produced.
Kay Luke Yeah that makes sense, targeting a demographic, not a market.
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Baz Martin Gibbons I get what you're saying, but what I think I'm gathering from others here is that I need to play to my strengths, and screenplay style and format suits my skills and abilities far better.
Wow, Kay, is right on point, based on her feedback you are better off writing a novel, as that may still go towards showing your talent to the wide variety of audience.
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Michael - I was in a similar position with a story concept, and I wrote it as a screenplay to see how it would work out. Once I was done, I decided it would work better as a novel, so I've recruited a collaborator to help me with the prose, and we're writing it together (2/3 done now) I think there's no way to tell how a project will work out until you've done it.
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Richard....that’s an interesting way to work around a limitation. Let me ask you, if you don’t mind, how that works? Do you just do story and then your partner comes up with the prose?
Yep Yep Beth Fox Heisinger Kay Luke pretty much summed up my take :) Just do it Michael Cantrell don't overthink and stress yourself out. Right now, the only thing seeming to be stopping you, is you, and that, my friend, is a big part why many of us look back and realize we never started because we were too busy worrying about what if's. Even if it doesn't sell and make you rich, it's still your story and you should be proud that you got it out ^_^
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I do think it is harder to get a screenplay to see the light of day. You do not have to go deep into the character with prose. Have your character do things to express their feelings. That's what they call "show, don't tell". Write your novel. Just write it. Don't worry about beautiful prose. Books can get too bogged down with so much telling. Have your characters act out what they're thinking. That's the rule in novel writing also.
Katheryn Maddox Haddad That's the exact approach I think I'm going to take with my writing. Like I said, I don't know the exact thoughts my characters are having, but I know what they are feeling and the actions they would take as a result and so focusing on that rather than internal stuff seems to be the natural way I'm wired to write.
I'm coming to accept that may not be a style that works for a lot of people, but you know, that's okay. It's how I work. I'm sure I'll have sprinkles of the character's thought processes here and there, but it's going to be used very sparingly.
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Imo Wimana Chadband Thanks for the encouragement! Yeah, I'm definitely my own worst enemy when it comes to getting this story out. I just need to do it and put aside all the worries. Just enjoy the process of crafting something.
As someone who also spent years writing novels and found that I'm no good at prose, I think you might be a better screenwriter. I recently switched to writing screenplays and found that it's the perfect fit for me because I too visualize my stories playing out like movies.
It won't be a waste of time to switch formats if you can never quite complete any novel because of this flaw. I could never finish a novel and now I'm almost done my second screenplay.
Write it as a screenplay. Screenplays make great outlines for novels, so you can do it later if you want. Michael Crichton started many of his novels as screenplays.
Ah, this is absolutely great!
I started out trying to write a novel last month and discussed I was better at writing a screenplay. I find novels to be too detailed to write and I discover I enjoyed the technicality of a screenplay more.
I can't make your decision for you. If it was me, I'll just write what comes natural to me- write a script.
Maybe for a novel, you could find a way to make it, I don't know, a bit like a script- more descriptive or something.
Peter Oruamen Those are my thoughts exactly, Peter. I'm wanting to strip away a lot of the inner thoughts stuff and just focus on actions and dialogue plus setting descriptions. I don't know how readers will respond to that, but I guess I'll find out. Of course, I could still do the screenplay first and use it as an outline and just fill in some additional details. I'm closer to deciding what I want to do.
Steven Hopstaken Had no idea Crichton did that with his novels. Definitely a good way to do things. I've only read Jurassic Park from him and that was years ago, so I can't recall his writing style.
I write spec scripts and novels the same way. I express characters' inner thoughts by personifying the scene. If you go indie with your book, IT WILL BE PUBLISHED. I know that is one of your concerns ~ results, something to actually show for your time and talent.
You're welcome bro Michael Cantrell You've got this. Go for it!
Imo Wimana Chadband Thanks man!
Waited 10 years to read this thread. Everything i needed to hear and them some.
Good luck Michael
Michael - I wrote a 7K word outline and some of the introductory chapters. Then my collaborator took over writing the chapters and I edit them to give them the nuances I want. It's working surprisingly well, but I may have lucked out in finding a good partner to work with.
Well, I've decided to write the screenplay and then turn it into a novel through a unique process I'm working through. Thanks y'all.