Following on from a brief conversation in another thread- do you demo for jobs? Pros and cons on the subject? Be very interested to hear everyone's insights on this.
Personally I do if the director would like/if I would like to write something specific for the project, even if there are existing similar works already in my portfolio. It is a risk as you're investing time and energy without being sure you'll get the job, but I think it's a great microcosm for getting a feel of what working with that director on that particular project would be like. It also shows the director you're invested in the project and willing to take part in it. And, as also mentioned elsewhere, sitting down to do a demo is often a freer experience than sitting down in front of a feature, so it gives opportunities to experiment and try things that you may not otherwise give yourself space for.
A recent case study from my own experience- a director posted on a women's crew page on Facebook about her project and asked for expressions of interest from HODs. I liked the sound of the film and reached out, we started to message and connected really well. She asked if I would demo in response to having read the script. I did, and got to try out some techniques I'd wanted to try implementing for a while. She liked what I wrote but it wasn't quite right tonally for the way she was planning to shoot the scene I'd based the demo on. So, I took her notes on board and re-worked the music. She loved the second demo and we formally agreed to work together. I simply wouldn't have got that job without demoing.
That second demo is now being used in all the social media campaign/crowdfunding for the film and is being heard way more widely than if I'd just created it for the film. I message with the director regularly, talking and getting to know each other's likes, dislikes and thoughts on film, which wouldn't have happened if I hadn't been willing to demo and therefore come on board at such an early stage (I can't overemphasise how important it is to get to know the directors you work with wherever possible!) The director can use the demo to set the atmosphere and mood on set if she would like. And I can look forward to the project knowing that working with that director is going to be so enjoyable, because her notes for the demo were so clear and we're on exactly the same page when it comes to the music, which I've already now built the sound pallet for.
Anyone else's experiences and thoughts?
Joanna Karselis Demos. Interesting subject. And sometimes very difficult to get into the directors head without doing a demo. Getting feedback from a submitted demo can be beneficial or disappointing. But, valuable in either case.
I have been asked to write something for a particular scene as a demo for the gig. And usually I have visuals to work with from a rough cut. Rarely have I been asked to demo a score from a script. And when this circumstance comes up, I really move to communicate with the director on their vision for the score in that particular scene. The more initial direction I receive, the better. And there have been times when I got little or no direction for a demo. It's a stab in the dark more often than not.
The other, more prevalent case is when I'm asked to demo a score for a scene (visuals) that already has temp music. How does anyone handle this situation?
More often than not,I am requested to score a demo. And knowing full well, there are a lot of talented composers doing the same thing to get the gig. Demoing a score, I feel is a must. I will sometimes ask the director if they want a demo. Some do, some don't. Depends on whether or not they have heard something they liked on one of my other projects and go from that only.
I'd be interested in other composers' input on this subject.
Interesting approach. In most cases as I post complete scores which means all 35 films, the ones I wrote that were never used, along with a hundred or so (or more) jazz and classical/'suite' tracks, there is usually something I can already direct them to without writing something new. But to be honest, I don't recollect any prospective client ever asking me to write something new - it is more likely that occasionally I get hired and then somewhere along the way for various reasons, I leave the project. Not happened very often but what seems to be a match turns out not to be.
But what you suggested above did happen to me once. It would have been my first feature film back in 2016 called "Joy Comes In The Morning". The director needed music to use for promotional purposes while the film was in post. So I wrote him a track and we envisioned it would serve as the film's theme and be extended for the end titles. But somewhere along the way two things happened - aside from the screenwriter, everyone else of the cast and crew were expected to work for free and I was told that multiple independent composers would be used to score and I would only be assigned certain scenes. So I voluntarily left the project. But that track remains - https://soundcloud.com/joelirwin/joy
And by the way, during covid I wrote a large collection of music - some 19 tracks which had varied music - not all orchestral. So far, none of them have been used for films. I often direct clients to specific tracks or the whole collection. https://soundcloud.com/joelirwin/almost-alone
Jim Rieder great insights Jim. I particularly love this comment- "Getting feedback from a submitted demo can be beneficial or disappointing. But, valuable in either case." You've summed up the value of demoing in a very neat nutshell there, it's about putting our egos on the line and instead prioritising the music- quite humbling really.
I completely agree that it's better to have as much direction as possible from a director before demoing. How they give that direction and respond to questions is also a great insight into what your working relationship may be like, on top of helping you get a sense of what they have in mind for the film.
Like you I've only demo'd from script a few times but interestingly I haven't necessarily needed more guidance on those occasions. The director in the story above and I had talked about the female voice being important, but that was pretty much it. She trusted me to then take that and run with it.
When it comes to scoring a scene with temp however, that's a tricky one. I always try to figure out what about the temp has captured the feeling the director is looking for. Maybe it's a rhythm or an instrument or a harmonic structure, or something more unusual. I also don't watch the scene with temp too much, probably just once, although I listen to the piece a few more times, then ask the director if there are other pieces that capture the feel they're looking for, to widen the sample pool. Interestingly, I've noticed being given scenes with temp for demos a lot less in the last year/18 months. Can't figure out why just yet but maybe directors are moving away from it and favouring reference music instead.
Joel Irwin Joel, so, you never get asked to demo? That's fascinating. What's your secret?! I'm very similar to you in quantities of music to potentially show directors, but my point above wasn't that I didn't have something similar already in my backcatalogue- I did have something fairly similar I could've shown the director on day 1- but I wanted to show enthusiasm for the project and be willing to engage in dialogue with the director by writing something bespoke and going the extra mile straight away. A bit like when Pina Toprak was demoing to score Captain Marvel and hired a fairly major scoring orchestra out of her own pocket!
Sounds like a bit of a nightmare on Joy Comes In The Morning, sorry you got messed around like that. At least you got a nice track out of it!
Almost half my credits (16 of 35) were for films associated with 168 Film Festival. Nothing to pitch there - either I had previously scored a film for the filmmaker or I got a referral based on my 'reputation'. In fact I would say about 2/3 of my films were repeat projects (i.e., I had already scored for them in a previous film).
Take the three from last year - "Storm Watch": I frequented the same monthly zoom networking meeting as the filmmaker and I had previous received one best score nomination and one sound design nomination. After the film was completed the filmmaker loved the music and our interaction and told me (we'll see...) that she will use me again this year. The other film, "Love Like A Hero" was directed by someone I had scored two of his previous films. Both these films were nominated for best score. Then the third, "The Players" was a first time project by someone here in Houston who has been aware of me for years and decided to give me a shot. She was also pleased with the result. My current film project, I was selected by a director here in Houston who was an actor in one my earlier films back in 2014/2015 and has seen quite a few of the films I have scored.
I guess my experience has not been taste before buying. It has more leaned toward try it and if you don't like it, try another flavor. I have been involved in scoring 3 or 4 films that were never completed. You know the one above; one I scored three times and the director decided the music didn't fit her demographic, one that merely told me they were going in a 'different direction' and finally one who I was doing a 'favor for' (score the film for free in 3 days for a 168 film that missed the deadline) and didn't like the fact that I insisted on him putting the score at time 0 as a single file/entity (and not break it up)[this was NOT a work for hire]).
My favorite 'breakup' was a director I met on the 168 Facebook group who I agreed to score her short film (man dealing with the loss of his best friend - a dog). During one of phone meetings, she heard a commotion in the background and decided to part ways telling me she didn't want to get in the way of a family situation. Turned out (the director didn't know), that my wife ran into the room shouting in panic that our grandson in summer camp had sat on a fire ant hill, had been epi-pen'd and sent to the emergency room. My daughter and her husband needed emergency baby sitting so they could drive the 3 hours to the hospital.
Tapping into a specific market is a good way to do it, sounds like you've got the Houston scene all tied up!
Definitely agree word of mouth creates less need to demo (I'm working on one feature at the moment, confirmed for one later in the year, and in talks for two more, and haven't demo'd for any of them; but if it felt like the project needed it, or if the director asked directly, I'd have happily demo'd for all of them.) I guess it's different approaches to relationships with directors and finding one that fits for you, it would be very boring if we all approached our work and creative relationships the same way!