Screenwriting : Writing is creating, not stealing. by Ana Ingham

Irony is often seen by some as outrageous. In 1920 (post-modern?) T.S. Eliot wrote, "“immature poets imitate, mature poets steal"

Oh, the irony! This statement by Sorkin is meant to poke fun at a creative truth. He is by no means promoting plagiarism. He is bluntly and outrageously addressing the fact that creatives are constantly influenced by other creatives. We borrow. We copy. We influence. We build upon ideas. We take elements from existing work and make them our own. Haven't you heard mimicry is the best flattery?! :) In every creative field "copying" is done. Matisse/Picasso. Shakespeare and like everyone, right? Madonna/Lady Gaga. Sorkin is also making fun of the novice. Novice writers may not acknowledge this truth, but seasoned writers not only fully acknowledge and understand it, they revel in it. :)

Perhaps a bigger frame of reference is in order, especially since Sorkin borrowed/stole the quote to begin with: http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/03/06/artists-steal/

It's hyperbole, but a useful one. Creativity is not simply originality, but the arrangement of ideas and concepts into something new and useful. Almost everything has been done on some level. Star Wars is a patchwork of Scifi, Samurai, and other influences. The text scroll of Flash Gordon shorts, Dune imagery in Tattoine, the plot of Hidden Fortress, the spiritual teachings of Hinduism and Daoism, the magic item spacecop/knight of Lensman, the quintessential Hero's Journey described by Joseph Campbell. In some ways, Star Wars is a work of grand plagiarism, and yet, when taking into account the multitude of sources, the skill of their arrangement, the boldness of the vision, it becomes something completely different from any of it's originators. The more media we take in, the more sources, whether movies, books, comics, web shorts, the more we can begin to recognize patterns, devices, and use them as mirrors to our own work. Is my character as interesting as this one? Why Not? What can I do to differentiate the differences while highlighting those appealing elements? Still, real verbatim plagiarism is the pits, and not funny at all. I can't imagine how angry it would make me to see it with my own work.

Influences are inevitable; we all learn; but it doesn't change the fact that the aim of an artist, of a writer should be originality; he/she should deserve what she creates. oh, yeah, hard work is the key and not opportunism.

If it's not the world around us, news, history or what we remember from an old movie or book story, we are all influenced by the past. What else do we have to draw on, of course this is different to blatant rip offs but that is often where the money is and can't be termed as art, enjoy creating Ana and be flattered if your ideas are borrowed. You can't copyright an idea.

Dear Mrs. Ingham Stephen Hawking used my theory on the creation and unification of the universe, and never made refferance to me. His partner gave an interview on Science Friday about a new theory he and Hawking had come up with. It was like a knife in the heart. If you go to - http://www.aclepd.com/universe - you can see how I dealt with the problem. In the world of academia, it is not gentlemanly to call someone a plagiarist. Especially someone like Stephen Hawking. I might suggest plagiarists and the proof of their dastardly deeds be place in on Stage 32, and other web sites. Thank you, - Robert Evan Howard - www.aclepd.com / Works best in FireFox - aclepd@aclepd.com - 1-801-856-3200 / U.S.A.

Good call Robert - they should play nice or be exposed.

Ana, forgive me, but you seem to be taking this quote too seriously and too literally. :) Please don't take offense, but this quote is not talking about opportunism nor about one not doing their own work. Picasso, one of the most prolific and original artists of our time, borrowed elements from African art, from Matisse, from Cezanne, from new discoveries in science and created something never seen from what already existed. All these influences enabled him to create some of the most original and popular art to this day. Picasso himself said, "Good artists copy; great artists steal." Various forms of this same quote have been stated by other incredible minds throughout the years. I mean, isn't it funny that Aaron Sorkin "borrowed" this quote and simply rephrased it. (Thanks for pointing that out Frank!) Again, it's just poking fun at an obvious truth. Now actual plagiarism, that is serious and unforgivable. You know Aaron Sorkin would come out with lawyers blazing if someone took his work word for word! Anyway, I wish you the best with all your endeavors! :)

Well put, Beth.

This quote, and similar ones, have always had another meaning to me. Being a novice writer myself, the point that the seasoned writer/artist "steals" from others or from other sources simply means that those who are practiced keen observers, those that can see connections and meanings where others cannot, are the ones that reach true originality. Therefore, I strive to live with eyes wide open. You never know when influence or inspiration will strike. ;)

I've always read it that way, Beth. Not as sacrificing basic moral principles but as being keen observers. Said with a great sense of a writers irony. T.S. Elliot seems to be the first published version in 1920 and there are variations attributed to Oscar Wilde, Pablo Picasso and Mark Twain. None of them sacrificed their basic moral principles with their art as far as I know.

I believe the phrasing is inaccurate, not morally wrong. Whoever came up with it felt self-satisfied enough to play the bad boy and champion of stealing. Stealing is not correct. Remixing is more accurate. A remix is not an outright theft, but a building upon what has come before. That doesn't mean you plagiarize and change a few words. It means you draw from ideas presented in other works and you improve upon them. That is creating. The best works take ideas from multiple sources and combine them in novel ways, the ways others haven't thought of before. If you can do that, then multiple people can accuse you of stealing, but that's not what it is, it's reinventing. All art comes about this way. We don't exist in a vacuum. We are influenced by the culture and the many relevant works that have come before.

Ana, I like the subject of your post. Most of all, I like your stance!

Writer's irony indeed! ...with a little highbrow smart ass flare!

Ana, my thoughts on stealing are simple--If you are a true artist, you have a creative mind to expand upon; when you are a thief, you have nothing unless you take it from the creative mind of someone else.

...however, I've read in quite a few places that Vince Gilligan has 'stolen' from quite a few shows. By his own admission he said The X-Files was a major 'inspiration' to him. And Breaking Bad is one of the most talked about TV shows of the decade.....I guess there is 'borrowing' and 'borrowing' ......hmmm

This is something I worry about, I have read voraciously all my life in a wide variety of genre's from The Hardy Boys to Portnoy's Complaint to The Lord of the Rings as well as being an avid film goer and I have to believe all of this has the potential to influence my writing. My question is where is the line between creativity and innovation and being a thief or just derivative?

Unfortunately it is an old axiom. "Good artists copy, great artists steal." Pablo Picasso. I think we are all influenced and this is why I sometimes refuse to see certain films, or moreover, read certain books. I don't want to sound like [that] writer. We walk a fine line between creativity and influence. I think that the context of being true to yourself is more important than the actual content. In the end we will write as we have written. We have said it as we have said so. Integrity is no more measurable than excellence. Both are contextual and both are more about your personal process and commitment to that process than the result. It's a bit like - you can only be the best of who you really are - no more or no less.

If you think about it, how many have "stolen" Romeo and Juliet? Titanic, Valley Girl, West Side Story...plagiarism? No. Just taking it and making it new, different, updated...Like Jackie Chan being influenced by Buster Keaton...observe "Great Artists Steal" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt9zZFCadHA

Wow. Well, I hope (and suspect) that Sorkin's comment was meant as hyperbole. Because intellectual theft, plagiarism, etc is of course utterly wrong. And any "great writer" would realize that. And wouldn't want to rehash old ideas anyway, unless they have something new and significant to contribute. What I think was meant was that good/great writers are inspired by past work and artists. And that...is completely true. Where's the line? Hard to say. But just musing off the cuff here, I'd argue that it's a question of two things. 1) Honesty. IE: an honest writer admits to their influences freely. 2) Are we talking about atmospheric touches and beats...or full fledged lifting of structure, plot and/or characters? One is reasonable, the other not. For instance, an homage to Blade Runner's vibe in a SF script is perfectly fine. But recreating the whole story and changing names? No. (And why would anyone want to see an already well executed plot is beyond me, anyway.) Is there a hard and fast line? Probably not. Guess I'll fall back on the cliche: You'd know intellectual theft when you see it. (Though, good luck getting lawyers to agree on that!) :P

"I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages." Quentin Tarantino

Sadly "plagiarising" is a nasty human trait in all industries where innovation lies at its heart. By the way the word is from the ancient Greek to 'Kidnap'. Some innovators see plagiarising as flattery but when 'they' dress up your work and call it their own well I don't see that as any form of flattery but rather as theft and deceit. J H Parkes

It's okay to steal, but you have to be clever about it. No one would notice Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid in my vampire script if I didn't mention it. I almost used the word borrow, but I'm not giving it back.

All good writing is rewriting from a unique stand point. A fresh idea is what I consider unique. Old ideas rehashed may make money. However, fresh ideas are valuable. The difference between writing a film and writing one that stands out above the rest. Fresh ideas versus rehashed. What's old is new and what's new is old. Go watch a remake! Fresh ideas can be high concept. Go watch something new! Perception based off your beliefs is your reality. Not mine!

Love Tarantino. :)

Everything has been done before, and everyone borrows. Those influences are in all of us even if we aren't conscious of it. All we can do is re-imagine it, and make it fresh. That's what Orson Welles did when he watched Stagecoach 50 times while preparing for Citizen Kane. My scripts are influenced by other writers, and they still qualify as original. Someone could pick out bits and pieces and say it sounds like something so and so would have written. Sure he could have, but he didn't. Technically it really isn't stealing, but I don't get bent out of shape over that word. The vampire script I mentioned before has influences from Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, and it is nothing like any other vampire movie ever made. I can acknowledge the influence of one of my favorite screenwriters, William Goldman, without being guilty of plagiarism.

I would like to write a script where in a man and a woman meet, fall in love, have a big disagreement and part ways only to get back together by the end of the movie. Should I be concerned about "stealing" that idea?

Mr. Armando Alejandro freely admits to stealing. Therefore I am putting him on every list I can. In fact, I am starting a web page dedicated to identifying plagiarists. If you have a candidate, please send me their info, and how to verify their theft. “ Armando Alejandro - 11:42am Jan 5 "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages." Quentin Tarantino “. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My reply to Mr. Alejandro ---- Dear Mr. Alejandro Thanks for identifying yourself as a thief. I will be sure to put you on every list I can. Thank you, - Robert Evan Howard - www.aclepd.com / Works best in FireFox - aclepd@aclepd.com - 1-801-856-3200 / U.S.A.

Robert Evan Howard - You need to get your facts straight. Use some common sense for once. I don't steal anything from anybody. My stories are my own original ideas. I just posted a quote from Quentin Tarantino who claims to steal from everywhere. My point in posting that quote was that there's a lot of successful folks out there who made a career of it... That's what this discussion is about, right?. That's what we're discussing, correct? Do I have to explain to you what this discussion is about? It's obvious you're not a very smart individual if I have to explain that to you. You can put me in any list you want. It won't make a difference because my stories are based on stuff I know or I experienced. I stick to what I know and my stories are mine, I came up with them. Nobody will be able to claim anything. I'm currently writing an original sci-fi World War II story. Did I steal the idea from Word War II or from the sci-fi genre? How many World War II sci-fi stories/movies have you seen?

Your post! “ Armando Alejandro - 11:42am Jan 5 "I steal from every single movie ever made. If people don't like that, then tough tills, don't go and see it, all right? I steal from everything. Great artists steal, they don't do homages." Quentin Tarantino “.

I agree with some of what you say – but not quite all. When I watch the news, a movie or TV or read something, I quite often receive a creative brain flash that sets me into a writing frenzy. You might argue that I’ve stolen an idea, plot or story line. If I rewrite Cinderella played out through the stepmother’s pov – is that stealing? Is a photographer who shoots fashion models stealing her image, did Leonardo steal Mona Lisa’s beauty? I share my work freely with all and I personally take it as a compliment that someone finds my work so awe inspiring as to purloin it.

Robert Evan Howard: You see Quentin Tarantino's name at the end of it? Do you see the quotation marks around the post? I didn't even steal the quote. I gave credit to the writer of it who happens to be Quentin Tarantino. You can google it. Do I have to explain that to you to? Go here: www.Google.com. In the search box (It's a large rectangle box in the middle of the screen) of google.com, copy/paste the the quote I posted. There's a button that says 'Google Search' below the google search box. then click on it. If the copy/paste or the clicking gives you trouble, you can google that to.

Doug Nelson made a good point. Look at the story 'Snow White and the Huntsman'... It was a new take on an old story.

Every time someone starts a thread that has some 'heat,' it catches fire and goes on, all the while getting hotter - deeper. I am going to steal my life from myself and write a stolen script and then I am going to act out and in that dialogue and action imagine that I am someone else. The only thing that is new - here - in life, in writing is you (or me). We are now the new thing in the mix. The only thing that makes a new literary work or a new story or a new moving picture is a point of view. It might be the same story - but seen - or expressed from a new place it becomes a fresh new idea. There is really nothing stolen, nothing borrowed. It's as if the same story is always going on, but the writer is the seer and the seer looks from different places because we are each a different person, and even if we are much the same we all have the opportunity to stand in a different place. Point of view.

Thanks for posting Tarantino's quote Armando. Quentin Tarantino is a walking video reference desk. He knows everything about every film, down to who composed the music. He is a genius, sure he's controversial, but a genius nonetheless. He openly talks about what films influence him. He is an open book about his work. His quote is really him defending his work. He's being flip. Here's Tarantino's complete statement: “I steal from every single movie ever made. I love it – if my work has anything it’s that I’m taking this from this and that from that and mixing them together. If people don’t like that, then tough titty, don’t go and see it, alright? I steal from everything. Great artists steal; they don’t do homages.” Note he's really talking about "mixing." What I find interesting is that he vehemently protects his work by refusing to ever sell a script again because he was so mad that one time someone changed his story. Therefore he directs his own work. Period. Tarantino would never ever commit plagiarism. He is a writer first and foremost. He has way too much respect for the craft. :)

There is a difference between context and content. Lets understand this before we go off into pointless heated debates. Content - The things that are directly held or included in something. Context - The circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed. We all can agree on this. It's the discerning line between plagiarism and bordering on the ideas of others. As writers we hold our work close to our heart. This becomes personal as our ego's are involved. We all know there is nothing new under the sun. However, old ideas spark new ones. But context is often different. Lets draw the line in the sand here and understand the difference between the two.

Ana I'm with you 100%! Also is not the same to copy, "borrow" or influence. You can love how write whatever writer and he or she can influence the way you write, but that not means you will take his ideas to make them yours. Creation! Nobody can create something new! We just adjust, change the point of view, change the colors ...to looks as fantasy, horror or something unreal. If as a writer I see somebody write that I wrote already, I can think....I'm not the only one in this world who think in the same way....or I can be upset thinking that "sob" steal my idea...or.....leave them...you are unique and you can make another mix of colors!!! Always you will have around you people who wants to be like you...so.......smile and be happy...only...only you know the secret to be a great writer, not to be a copier or borrower!

Ohhh...wait I second! This remind me Thomas Edison and Tesla!!!!

Okay, sorry, but if you think you are not "stealing" from other writers; from previous films; from history; from artists; from every thing around you right now, then you're fooling yourself. Call it whatever you like; borrowing; mimicry; copying; influence; paying homage; admiring; creating.... Good artists copy; great artists steal. -Picasso "Many artists have interpreted Picasso’s quote to mean that to copy a painting, for example, is to simply copy what you see without bringing your own perspective and original ideas to the table. What "stealing" refers to, however, is when you copy the inspiration that fueled the development of the original, but also infuse your own perspective and take on things into an entirely new creation." Steve Jobs used this quote too! The following statement from Thomas Stephen is particularly insightful to understand this quote: So, what do Picasso and T.S. Eliot mean? They say, in the briefest of terms: take old work to a new place. Steal the Google site, strip down what works (fast load, nonexistent graphics, small quirky changes that delight) and use the parts on your own site. Look at the curve of a Coke Bottle and create a beautiful landscape painting with it. Take the hairline pinstriping on the side of somebody’s car, reimagine it on your print job. Find inspiration in the world you live in, where nothing is truly new so that everything has the potential to be innovative.

I MUST apologize to Armando Alejandro! I took his posting as his statement. Therefore - Dear Mr. Alejandro I took what you wrote as what you wrote. Please emphasize that you are quoting, and from whom. Thanks for identifying Quentin Tarantino as the author. I will also put this on the discussion posting. Thank you, - Robert Evan Howard - www.aclepd.com / Works best in FireFox - aclepd@aclepd.com - 1-801-856-3200 / U.S.A.

Robert Evan Howard - I thought the quotes and Quentin's name at the end was enough. Overall, it's no problem. I'll take it as a misunderstanding.

You can also look at Sylvester Stallone who has been sued numerous times by people over the years claiming he stole their life story or work. I personally like most of Quentin Tarantino's flicks. But this issue applies to every industry. Even the Facebook idea was suppose to be stolen or that Elvis Presley copied or stole from black music or that Microsoft stole windows from Apple, but then you can argue that Steve Jobs stole the windows interface from Xerox. At the end of the day, you're always copying from somewhere or somebody. The question is can you take it to another level and make it your own.

So when I write a script about two star-crossed lovers similar to Romeo and Juliet, I'm ripping off Shakespeare, but if I put them in outer space it's an original "high concept" script idea? I think we all "borrow" something from someone, whether we think we do or not.

Alejandro...I'm following your "conversation" between you and other guy (I don't remember his name and I'm not going back to see his name). This is like dominos falling down. Who can stop it? Or better...who want to stop it? It is impossible. I take a seat and see the current running in front of me and take what current I like it. Honestly this make me laugh, and I really don't understand why this issue. Nothing is new in this world!!! Like I said before, we, the writers...we can make this world better making the old new or different. After "Star Wars" how many movies look like it? A bunch! And people still like it!!!! If you read the History of whatever country you will see how different is if a priest write it, or a doctor, or a lawyer, or a slave. All of them have their own story from their point of view and at the end is the same story. So go ahead and write whatever you want, take your inspiration from other writers, movies, commercials, your neighbor, from a book, from the moon, angels or demons. Nothing is new!!! Who can stop you or better, who want to stop you? Don't give to anybody the permission to stop you! Just write and walaaaaaa! I'm doing the same and that make me happy! Good luck!

Um, Gary, ....yes, and....yes, and right on! :D LOL!!

I don't know if Sorkin's comment was meant as hyperbole but there is a difference between having inspired by someone else’s work and to steal in cold blood. I have personal experience of this. My former CO-screenwriter without my permission sought to exploit for himself the screenplay that is adaptation of my book and all rights reserved by me. I've already resorted to Justice and expect the judgment. So, be very careful in regards to your work!

I would think the Super-power Heroes genre would be a good example of how one theme can spawn many stories, but all seemingly very similar in arc and beats. Are other writers stealing it? No, just trying to find their own style and making it relative. The risk of this is monotony, about the same old-same old, not copyright infringement. A copyright does protect more than a WGA registry, and if you see your story coming up in production without your name attached, you can make their lives at least inconvenient, if not adding to their costs by settling a suit and paying another writer in a legal judgement. Writers can't make it on one work in this business. You must have idea, after idea, after idea. Any writer stealing an idea would need to keep it up for they are not coming up with the ideas of their own. To me, that sounds like more work than creating it yourself.

In the context of the ironic quote given by T.S. Eliot and rewritten/rephrased/used by Picasso, Steve Jobs, Quentin Tarantino, Aaron Sorkin and I'm sure by many others; COPY means to duplicate or mimic word for word, or image for image without adding any new perspective. To borrow. STEALING means to TAKE old work and bring it to a new place. To TAKE parts of something else and infuse your own perspective. Infuse your own ideas. Innovate. Create. Thus, in the context of this quote, "Good artists copy; great artists steal," or the quote which started this thread, "Good writers borrow from other writers. Great writers steal from them outright," STEALING = INNOVATION and/or CREATIVITY. Nothing is truly new therefore everything has the potential to be innovative. And the greatest among us do it best. I know I'm beating a dead horse here, so I'm done. :) Best wishes to all of you!!!

Irene, I think that is totally different! I will be very upset if that happen with me. You trust in somebody, was your partner! And on your back he did something. What a loyal partner! So, go ahead and good luck!

If I took everything literally, had no appreciation of irony, I would be a very poor writer.

We writers use our senses to create ideas. We read, listen, touch, taste and smell things around us. Among those things are the creations of others. If we copy, we attribute. If others' ideas inspire our own, we are using the community of knowledge in our work. If one eats at a nice restaurant, and the food inspires an idea, is that stealing? If you relay the origin of the idea, it is using the community of knowledge rather than stealing from it.

If you give credit to the source, isn't that acknowledging someone's originality.

Frankly I don't want other writers stealing from me. Stealing from me and giving me credit? No thank you.

Well said Ada!

You make a great point - although Aaron is speaking from a professional level and Hollywood is a business so grabbing what works and can sell and still be fresh, new and creative is the key.