Screenwriting : Dawn of the planet of the apes by Chanel Ashley

Two things: 1) The golden rule... he who has the gold rules. 2) Development. Every script you see on screen has gone through a giant meatgrinder from the screenplay that it started as. They had added stupid things to the script and removed clever things. The script they buy is usually much better than the version they make. Our job is not to write the version that ends up on screen (because a script like that will not survive the meatgrinder), but to write the great version, so that after it goes through the meatgrinder it's still pretty good.

PS: Though I haven't seen it yet, my guess is the repaired power station and hero are the result of scenes cut for time. First cuts of a film are usually longer because pages and scenes are added in development. They're filmed, and then the movie is shown to test audiences and scenes and characters and all kinds of other things are cut. That gets them the final cut that is released. Slow scenes where boring things happen (protag gets better, they repair power stations, etc) are first to go in favor of action scenes. This is one of the reasons it's important to make the action scenes characters scenes and story scenes as well, so that when they cut everything else, you still have character and story in the final cut.

I'm inclined to agree with all you say, William, with what we know and have learned it is fun to see/observe the mechanics on display and watch the "tale" unfold as one would predict - I think it conspicuous that many hands were at play here, your so-called "meatgrider" - after all that, I enjoyed it, but geez, it could have been so much better, so much more clever, but they decided to play safe.

Big words, Alle, for someone that hasn't seen the film, otherwise you would have observed that this film is hardly an advertisement for subtext - I have two screenplays uploaded on this site for public scrutiny, you have NOTHING to show us, no EVIDENCE of your brilliance which you asert - you are a perfect example of why you should "show, not tell" - upload your genius for all to see, but you can't, can you.

The movie lost me at the previews, it looks pretty predictable and dumb, now if they had them slinging their poo around . . . But that would be too realistic and that seems to be the last thing Hollywood wants anymore!

Spoiler: It was two days after the bullet was removed, there's dialogue in the attic scene that points this out. And every scene after the effects of the wound are shown right up to the end of the film: he has trouble running the subway he can barely climb the tower he has trouble fighting koba Also this was a bullet wound in the shoulder not somewhere more vital. That's cliche positioning, but it doesn't magically make a battle-hardened, wilderness-living individual unable to do what needs to be done. -- As to why specs have to be smarter than shooting scripts: You have to prove you can demonstrate good writing like how a doctor must have vast general knowledge before they specialize. As can be seen from recent lofty spec sales, Hollywood craves good writers and don't have enough to (re)write the summer tent pole movies that fund the smarter, less successful films everyone wants to make. "But what about the crap that was crap from day one?" Who you know trumps what you know 11 times out of 10. This is a law of society and pouting about it instead of trying to enjoy (and learn from) a movie you spent a good sum on isn't going to help you break in any faster. Every movie has insight. Every script has value. Flush your crap at the door and learn something.

Chanel, I had someone from Hollywood read my script and SERIOUSLY if I wrote it the way he wanted me to, I would give away the entire story in the first 15 pages. He called it character development. But the way he wanted it done, you would say "Ok, I see where this is going." He said,"When people go see a movie, this is he format they want to see." I'm still not funded, but I don't want to give away the story at the beginning of the movie just to get funded either.

I saw Dawn of Planet of Apes last night and loved it. You're calling this a movie that cheated rules but you're not looking at the bigger picture. this is a $150M summer blockbuster starring subtitled and sign language using monkeys for 75% of the film. And it got made!! And it has better character development in those monkeys than almost any human character in a summer movie I've ever seen. yes, there are some missing moments which I'm guessing were cut for time. But Caesar's injuries ARE tracked. And certainly if we can believe that John McClane can still fight and win after being beaten, shot and almost killed for 90 mins, we can swallow that superhuman APES might be able to. I think you're being hypercritical of things that are easily swallowed.

It's a MOVIE.

Yes it is....LOL Now, I LOVE a visually stunning and entertaining movie. I just hate it when we're led to the ending at the beginning of the movie. I, however, have not seen Apes yet.

I thought it was okay, I would have enjoyed it more if it was a little shorter.

Alle Segretti, you are way out of line, as usual, in responding to complaints about a movie with a personal attack on the poster. It is not the first example of bullying and meanness I've seen from you and regrettably I fear it won't be the last. Also Chanel is quite right- talk is cheap. Maybe you really do have the near-godlike talent you constantly claim- but how is anyone supposed to tell? Chanel, you might be right about the film- I haven't seen it- but it does come across like you're getting too worked up over a silly blockbuster. Maybe it's the capitals.

Martell is right on the money, as usual.

As for Allie, I find it ironic that you berated the poster for her short film coming out in 2015, when your call for 3 page scripts had the option period of 3 years plus another 3 year extension.

Perhaps, Chanel, you are missing the subtext and message of the film. It's about tolerance -- the lack of or desperate need for. It's about leadership. It's about survival. It examines the horrifying way in which gun power and militant force is much easier to achieve than diplomacy. The inevitable attraction of weapons and their dangers has certainly done damage to humanity. Now in this new world will it do the same thing to a different species who has risen to power? This film says something about the world, rather than just blowing it up. This film speaks to Americans with our ongoing debate about gun use, gun rights and gun control. Sorry, but in the world of this film, of course intelligent apes would be able to operate guns. As far as strength, regular apes, chimpanzees and gorillas are 3 to 5 times stronger than man. In a world of "super" apes, they could endure anything.

Beth for the win.

Firstly, I repeat that it was a good film, I enjoyed it and the production values were excellent as one would expect - these are not the issues - simply, I was surprised at how conspicuous and apparent the format/template unfolded on the screen, there was no attempt to disguise it - when you consider all the talent available to the big Hollywood studio, I thought it could have been a little more clever - sure, the hero making a miraculous recovery, etc, is common and we see it all the time, but why does it have to be so obvious - I personally believe it's deliberately dumbed down to appeal to the masses - so what you say? - have another look at the original with Charlton Heston - it was, in fact, original, clever, well made and did not dumb down for the masses, while a little dated, still great entertainment.

I enjoyed the film. Through all of the chaos (cinematically speaking), the story's structure was great. I agree with Beth about leadership, survival, etc. But I must add to that list the "inner" battles that characters had to go through. The conflicts, inner and outer, was at its core and as a viewer, I was drawn to it.

Yeah, Chanel, I totally get what you are saying. However, I think script format is more apparent to those of us who have intimate knowledge of it. And, sometimes that knowledge gets in the way of just enjoying a film instead of picking it apart. (I know that's the case for me sometimes!) Personally, I did not think they "dumbed it down" but rather the script format did its job of guiding an audience through the story. Also, to me, the original "Planet of the Apes" with Charlton Heston was extremely well crafted and viscerally shocking, but formulaic as well. There were so many political and social issues happening at that time in which the film addressed and also used for emotional effect. Issues of today are clear in the updated version. In the end, I think themes and messaging were key to all these films. Sometimes messaging wrapped in entertainment is better clear than overly clever. :)

Clearly, the film has resonated with many members on the desired levels the studio had hoped for - people saw this film through different eyes, which is to be expected, of course, but ultimately, we all enjoyed the experience on one level or another - this film will be a big success, no doubt about that.

Allie thanks for ignoring what you wrote: "The only credit you have as a writer is for a short film to be made in June 2015 - which is ridiculous for a short film - a YEAR? Come on." And I most certainly don't need you to teach me anything about the business, that's for sure. Have no fears, since you are in Australia and I'm in the US, the chances of our paths ever crossing in any sort of biz capacity is about as likely as the sun crashing into the Pacific Ocean. Yes, there is a God.

I don't know, Alle. I don't know if California is big enough for the two of you.

Why don't you two take this conversation elsewhere. More private perhaps. Thanks.

It's a bit of fun, Beth, a little banter, I'm enjoying it, sure, a little facetious, but life isn't all prim and proper, sometimes.

I get tired of Hollywood making sequels and remakes. It only takes away from the creators of original works, which I think filmmaking is all about!

Chanel, of course life isn't all "prim and proper." I never said it was, nor am I. Just voicing annoyance.

I know, Beth, don't take me so seriously, I like to kid and have a very dry sense of humour, you're a good kid, chill.

Chanel, I don't take you seriously.

Ah, life is too short.

I liked Dawn better than Rise. The reason the plot seemed to nail the beats we are so familiar with is the writer, Mark Bomback has done a lot of script doctoring work. If you want to listen to an interesting podcast with the writer check out The Q&A with Jeff Goldsmith.

Read, that, Mark Bomback is pretty good, I prefer David Koepp - thought the beats/pacing was initially very good, but several flat spots that seemed to make the film drag a little longer than necessary.

Chanel I DO get what you're saying and agree. The story making process and the writing shouldn't be obvious. Some movies I watch I forget that I'm watching it and am in the story others I watch and cringe at all the obvious points of the screenwriting process. I haven't seen the movie. I don't find primates an interesting species to watch as characters in a film. I'm more a cat person. ;) There's a certain poster on this thread that has some serious delusions.

Here's a great review of "Dawn of the Planet of the Apes" that might prove interesting: http://www.hulu.com/watch/659800#i1,p6,d1 And, here's a great interview with Matt Reeves, writer and director of the film: http://www.hulu.com/watch/660011

While we can debate the merits of this film, the most outstanding feature for me was the work of Andy Serkis as Caesar - superb, impossible not to be impressed, able to evoke strong emotions/reaction from the audience - would love to see him an award for this portrayal.

he's the best character actor.

Cherie, he is excellent, he is worth the movie ticket, alone - you might change your mind re finding primates an interesting species to watch as characters in a film, LOL.

nah, they just never excite me Chanel. Cats however, cats are great to watch haha.

I loved it!!

As a writer, Theresa, did you find the film almost text book perfect? - I also enjoyed the film, but struck by how much it adhered to the "rules" of scriptwriting.

I guess when the ideas green lit, everything becomes possible. Loved that movie BTW.

You have a nice photo, Jenny, why not use it, makes it less formal - just a thought.

There are no rules in screenwriting, only methods and practices that work the majority of the time. In the case of DAWN, since it managed to get 90 percent on Rotten Tomatoes the critics thought it was great... since it made $700m at the box office and has made more money than any of the other APES films the audience thought it was great (repeat viewings). So the story has simply found the best path, which happened to be the same as what you call "the rules".

I like the way you write, the information you convey is excellent - I didn't so much criticise the movie, it was extremely enjoyable, but extremely surprised at the "gaps" on show considering the talent pool that worked on this film - we all understand the 3 act play concept, the set up, first turning point etc, but again, with the quality of the talent pool I would have expected a more seamless execution - but the movie was good entertainment, so we forgive any aberrations.

I look forward to your thoughts/comments once you've seen Dawn of the... I also forgot to mention the original Planet of the Apes - while a little dated, I loved this movie, my favourite Planet/film - the music also excellent - you seem to know your stuff, especially the older films, what are your thoughts on the 1953 Titanic - I love this movie, love the screenplay, even though littered with inaccuracies, have you per chance seen this film? - re Hollywood, you may be right, it explains the many deficiencies in some very big films one would not expect.

You shared your thoughts re Dawn/Apes, peter, how did you go with the 1953 version of Titanic, a wonderful script which won the Academy Award for best original screenplay - Clifton Webb was outstanding and Barbara Stanwyck was pretty good.

Yes, Lisa, you are correct, you CAN get away with it, but SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF cannot be the devise/vehicle used when the writing is average - this is an excuse, it is used too often and too convenient - you say for the sake of enjoyment, bull, you are too easily pleased - YES, THIS is a major factor in escapism movie-making, but in my opinion not exercised very well - deus ex machine is also a SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF, but it doesn't add to the story nor is it satisfying - I can handle as much Hollywood BS as the next person, but it's becoming too regular, common fare, almost expedient for good writing, knowing the audience will swallow whatever is dished-up - modern movies may excel in technology, but not in storytelling - you want an example? - look at the Toy Story films, superb WRITING and superb STORYTELLING, not to mention superb technology on display - those films show it can be done, that it is possible when and if you put your mind to it, AND one had to SUSPEND DISBELIEF.

We do have cinema and TV here, we do get movies from the States, we do watch those movies. I have a sneaking suspicion some Aussies even act in US movies.

Lisa, spend less time worried about the twist in your skirt, concentrate more on what was actually said/written - if you are satisfied with the current state of filmmaking, that's fine, that's your right, you are easily appeased - but I'm not satisfied and too many movies are simply okay, the writing okay, the storytelling okay, but there was a time when it was great, though less often, now - you are correct, I'm an Aussie and Aussie films tend to be dead straight, or if you will, grounded in reality - but I don't as a rule like Australian films, I prefer Australian actors, you may have heard of some - Hugh Jackman, Chris Hemsworth, Russell Crowe, Margot Robbie, Cate Blanchett, Eric Banner, Geoffrey Rush, Toni Collette, Rose Byrne, Simon Baker, Sam Worthington, etc. - directors, Baz Luhrmann, Peter Weir, Bruce Beresford, Phillip Noyce - finance, James Packer re Ratpac is financing Hollywood movies - WE LOVE HOLLYWOOD/WEIRD MOVIES, we also love to SUSPEND DISBELIEF, but the standard has dropped, that's the point I'm trying to make, just saying'...

Hey Pierre, I think our friends across the water would be shocked if they new the full extent of our mob's infiltration of their film and music industry, but we are well aware - whoa, I left out some of my state's favourite sons, director Scott Hicks and cinematographer Dean Semler, geez, this is just the tip of the iceberg - is Errol Flynn going too far back, lol?

I don't have a problem with you mentioning Errol Flynn, Chanel. I might also throw in Chips Rafferty, Guy Pearce, Hugo Weaving, Naomi Watts, Bryan Brown, Jackie Weaver, Rachel Griffith, Anthony LaPaglia .. Gee, it goes on a bit, doesn't it and that doesn't even include the new breed of up-n-comers. ;)

Maybe we should look at some of the Aussie screenwriters such as Stuart Beattie, Alex Proyas, Fred Schepisi, Shane Brennan, just a mere handful outside of the ones already mentioned in your list.

Wow, when you add them up, you're right, it does go on a bit - some fantastic talent - Alan Dale has become quite big and Xavier Samuals from the new breed - man, that only leaves you and me to make the list, LOL - the Yanks would be stunned if they realised how many of their favourites are in fact, Aussie - good stuff.

Actually, you are probably correct, Lisa, there would be a considerable number from the UK in your country - we call the English poms, pommy bastards, actually, LOL, but it's an endearment now, we love the poms and Brits, we keep beating them at sport - but relax, plenty of Americans have invaded the rest of the world and I love the fact it's all a little integrated - I wonder if they still dub Australian films for your audience re the accent, I'm pretty sure Mel Gibson was dubbed in the original Mad Max, The Road Warrior.

I vaguely recall reading somewhere about Arnold being dubbed, my, how things have changed, he became a governor of California, LOL - well, I'm pleased we're no longer dubbed, only subtitled, haha - I can assure you that we have a complete understanding of your dialect/language where dubbing is not required, LOL.

You're right, CJ, once Mad Max became a success in the US, the sequels had an American flavour - Mad Max was massive in this country and still beloved because it was so out-of-the-ordinary, a complete change of the norm - for once it was not about life in the Outback, bushrangers, the Boer War, WW 1 or WW2, nor a period piece of early Australiana, no mention of Gallipoli - this film was radical and blew everyone away - I notice in the trailer for the new Mad Max, also by George Miller, director of the original, this new version almost appears a replica of the original, simply updated - look forward to seeing that one, though a long time between drinks.

I'm impressed, Peter, I don't think too many people are aware of the body of work George Miller has created - he has either directed, written or produced MAD MAX 1, 2, 3 - HAPPY FEET 1, 2 - BABE 1, 2 - THE WITCHES OF EASTWICK - LORENZO'S OIL - he even directed an episode on TWILIGHT ZONE, THE MOVIE - the other three directors were John Landis, Joe Dante and Steven Spielberg, not bad company for a bloke from Queensland, the banana state, LOL.

Now, that the original topic has shifted might I add in, Georgina Haig who's known for small things, but she was cast in Once Upon A Time. I find her acting skills rather good. But, then again, you already named all the other greats of Australia. I also appreciate the comedic works of Rebel Wilson. Ah, Rebel. Adelaide Kane from Reign. Did we mention Nicole Kidman and Heath Ledger?

CJ, really impressed you know these people, most wouldn't have a clue - sad Byron Kennedy was killed in that helicopter crash while only 33.

Peter, I had forgotten about Vic Morrow and that child actor - I believe the helicopter crash decapitated Vic while he tried to save the child, how sad is that.

Some nice additions, Tiffany, Georgina is a Melbourne girl, Rebel played Toula in Pizza and Adelaide Kane played Lolly Allen in Neighbours - geez, is there any Australian actor that did not appear on Neightbours - I'm incredulous as this list grows longer, so much Oz talent abroad, wow.

Tiffany, the original topic may have shifted, but we're still discussing movies/actors, that can't be a bad thing.