Producing : Ask Me Anything (AMA) Wednesday 5/15 to Thursday 5/16 - Developing Unscripted Content by Timothy Kuryak

Hi Timothy Kuryak - thanks so much for spending your time with us for this AMA! Question: What do you look for in deciding if a premise for an unscripted show will be successful long term? Thanks in advance!

It's great to meet you, Timothy Kuryak. Thanks for having this AMA. I've heard that it's important to have a sizzle reel and a pitch deck when pitching an unscripted show. Should I have anything else when pitching?

Thanks for doing the AMA, Timothy Kuryak What is created by way of documentation, if there is no script? Is it ‘just’ a pitch deck covering the basic concept and premise?

Hi Timothy Kuryak ,

Thanks for the information and question.

Is balancing entertainment and music with Storytelling full time for you, or is there a team involved?

My off the cuff question is, what’s a nice Emmy Nom. Guy like you doing in a forum / lounge like this, lol ? ;-)

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and experiences.

Kerry Kennard

I'm doing a documentary.

I was searching for a producer but now I'm not sure if I need one.

Where can I look online for budget samples? I guess I can just search.

What's a micro-budget for a documentary?

How do you know when the project is truly complete when you're not following a script and creating the narrative as you go?

How concerned do I need to be around lawsuits and fair use of other artists' materials?

Thank you

I think I remember seeing a training video here at St. 32 regarding Budgets for Documentary(s). Also, Irena Huljak , I connected witih Brandon Blake and his website is great to check about Law and anything related to Law. I would ask Brandon yourself about the Fair use, etc. Look for him here at Stage 32.

K.Kennard

"Feel free to check out my firm at https://www.filmtvlaw.com. I have been representing film, television and music clients for 23 years, with more than 60 produced film and television credits. Thanks again" - Brandon Blake

Thank you for sharing your time with us today, Timothy Kuryak! What do you feel are the most common misconceptions about unscripted content?

Hi Everybody! Thanks for writing in with your questions! I look forward to answering them throughout the day! And fair warning, I tend to be verbose at times, but there are things that are nuanced or require examples to help illustrate a point. I hope the added detail will help make things clearer!

Let's get started! Leonardo Ramirez Great question… with a few answers. First, could it be a format? Looking back at shows like “Say Yes to the Dress” or “What Not to Wear” those shows had many, many seasons, as they deal with things that will always be present in society (weddings and fashion, in these two cases). So, finding a show that deals with an ongoing issue, life event or “solves” a problem we all have is going to have the potential for a longer run than something that feels more like a “one-off” to special circumstance. That is also why cooking, real estate/home reno also do well… people are always interested in those areas, and it has an ever-refreshing audience. As people go through different life stages themselves, they look for shows that reflect what they are going through. So, a person at 20 may not be into HGTV, but at 30 when they are buying their first home, all of a sudden that programming appeals to them.

When it’s more talent related, you have to ask yourself two questions – “Why them? And why now?” If you can’t answer that question, you have a bigger problem. But if you can answer those two questions, you then have to ask yourself if there is an ongoing story to tell. With docu-series, you need to have compelling characters that will CONTINUE to evolve and go through interesting, engaging life stages or events that compel the viewer to want to continue watching. When developing these shows and when in production, you’re constantly asking “What else is coming up in their lives that would make for good tv?” (Is someone getting married? Having a baby? Are they on the cusp of a big new venture?). It can’t be just everyday stuff, but rather big things you can build to and promote.

Last, even some of the biggest, long-running shows were not ratings hits out of the gate. Long-running unscripted shows tend to build through word of mouth. I can’t tell you the number of shows that were on the cusp of getting cancelled only to have their highest rated seasons happen AFTER that moment in time.

Leonardo Ramirez Another thing to look for is ONGOING events that happen on a yearly basis. Think "Deadliest Catch" - that is a seasonal event that has great stakes. There is a ticking clock and a clear goal (we need to make X amount $ to make our season) and a bit of a competitive elements between the boats. And this happens EVERY YEAR. So if it works one year as a compelling show, it will probably work the next, given you have the same factors at play.

Maurice Vaughan 's question: "I've heard that it's important to have a sizzle reel and a pitch deck when pitching an unscripted show. Should I have anything else when pitching?"

YES – those two things are crucial. Depending on the network and your experience in the industry, sometimes a compelling “Zoom” video with your potential talent will suffice. But, this is a visual medium, so unless it’s a clear-cut or high-concept format, a reel and deck are required.

You’ll also want to have a list of potential storylines or where you think the show can go. (I don’t think you need to include everything in your deck, but you should be prepared with talking points).

Also, this may go without saying, but make sure you have everything locked up prior to pitching. If you are pitching a talent, make sure you have an agreement in place – and make sure they understand what’s involved if the show gets greenlit – you don’t want to pitch something only for the talent to back-out later. If there are any potential rights issues, make sure they are resolved. You want to be fully buttoned-up. Is there a brand or partner involved – if so, is that agreement in place? (Again, sometimes there is some latitude if you are well-established in the genre and you may get a little bit of a pass on some of these things).

Budgets are another thing you should be prepared to discuss. A good, but well thought-out, “ballpark” figure is good to have in the back of your mind.

You may also want to have a rough idea of what a production schedule would look like. If they need something for a particular quarter, could you deliver on that? Or is your show location based, and you need – say warm weather – to shoot? Again, this is not something you NEED in the pitch deck but be prepared to answer these questions when pitching.

"Deadliest Catch" is by a longshot one of my favorite unscripted shows. I think it's because of incredibly high stakes, Timothy Kuryak. Also love this..."As people go through different life stages themselves, they look for shows that reflect what they are going through." Makes perfect sense. Thank you so much!

Thanks, Timothy Kuryak. Really helpful answer! All of your answers are!

Geoff Hall "What is created by way of documentation, if there is no script? Is it ‘just’ a pitch deck covering the basic concept and premise?"

See the answer to @Maurice’s question above.

AND it really depends on the kind of show you’re talking about. If it’s a format or game, make sure you have the concept fully-fleshed-out. If it is similar to something already out there, or say you are pitching a show based on something you see happening in the world, maybe a sizzle reel of press clips, or maybe some YouTube videos that show people doing what you are pitching. If you were pitching a show like “Storage Wars” today, you could have links to news programs or clips talking about the phenomena, or clips from YouTube videos of people who are doing this and documenting it for themselves.

Anything you can do to show how this is in the zeitgeist or is an emerging trend can help support your pitch.

If it’s talent related, you want to show the talent, their world (environment) as well as the supporting people in their lives that will help make the show more well-rounded. Perhaps get them doing something you would see on the show, or spend a day with them when they are doing something big to see how they interact with and react to the situation.

Hey Kerry Kennard ! Thanks for asking, "Is balancing entertainment with Storytelling full time for you, or is there a team involved? "

Nope, it’s mostly just me! But it is full time and I divide my time in a number of ways. I do consulting for unscripted content (both for production companies and networks) that is kind of like an annuity with set parameters and deadlines.

My writing is a little more targeted, pitching ideas and then (hopefully) getting paid to write them. I also develop ideas and scripts outside of that to (1) stretch my creative muscles and (2) to develop a more well-rounded sample of work.

I also do collaborate with old colleagues on both unscripted and scripted content, whether that’s developing and pitching new ideas, or writing scripts as a duo. It’s nice to have someone else to keep you accountable, as well as to challenge you on your ideas/writing/etc. (to to mention divide and conquer on the workload). We all need that 30,000 ft view sometimes, and working with someone definitely helps me see things I may be overlooking.

As for "Why Is a guy like me hanging out in a place like this?"

I have been very fortunate in my career and have had people mentor/help me. Sometimes it's easy to forget we all needed a chance, advice, guidance, and information like this is easy to share. If it helps someone get a project developed or sold, that's great!

Irena Huljak There’s a lot to unpack here. But for some of these questions, it’s a bit outside my wheelhouse and/or should be answered by a true professional (i.e. legal questions). But let’s take your questions one-by-one, and remember this is JUST my opinion and not to be taken as gospel…

Do You Need a Producer?

I don’t mean to not answer the question, but it really depends. What role/function do you want them to provide? Guidance? A 30,000 ft view? Financing?

If you have a clear-cut idea of what you want the documentary to be, and have equipment, etc. to shoot it, then maybe you don’t. I think it’s always good to have another set of eyes to help you see the forest through the trees and/or to help you focus and refine your vision and story. But a lot of documentaries have also been done by one person with a camera.

If you need money, then yeah, you’ll probably want a producer who can go out and raise funds for the project. (But also, a lot of people have made documentaries using credit cards… I am not advocating that, but just saying there are different solutions to problems).

What is a Micro-Budget for a documentary?

I have done two documentaries in my life, and both were with production companies that brought me the project. So the budget was already set and agreed upon when I was brought in as an Executive Producer.

As for a budget, it all depends. Are you a one-person band who can shoot and edit? If so, you’ve just saved two line items! If you need to hire a full crew and post-team, then your budget is going to be bigger. You could find people who share your vision or love for the project, who may do it pro-bono, but that’s gonna be a case-by-case basis.

If you really want specific information, research the documentaries you like and see if there are news articles, festival interviews, etc. and I bet 9 times out of 10 they’ll mention their budget.

How do you know when your story is complete?

Again, it all depends. Personally, I would GO INTO a documentary with an idea of the story I want to tell. You probably have an assumption of what you want to accomplish with the documentary, and plan things accordingly. Sure, you want to be open to new information and follow new leads, but you need a game plan before you deviate from it.

Like a good trial lawyer, you should probably have an idea of what you’re going to capture or what someone you interview might say, so you can have a spine of an outline before you shoot a single frame.

Again, you don’t want to be beholden to a preconceived notion (maybe you’ll be proven wrong, and that’s your documentary), but you also don’t want to just shoot with no end goal in mind “hoping” you’re going to capture something exciting or informative.

Lawsuits/Fair Use ?

Here it is best to contact a true professional. While I could google “fair use” and “copyright act of 1976” the rules and guidelines around fair use are somewhat subjective. Also, even if you do use something under these rules, it doesn’t mean someone or a company WON’T sue you. In fact, they may file a lawsuit just to scare you and/or make you incur costs in the hopes it will make the project go away. Which is why you want a seasoned lawyer to look over everything IF you are using clips under “fair use.”

Hi Ashley Renee Smith - Thanks for your question: "What do you feel are the most common misconceptions about unscripted content? "

I think a lot of people think you just go out and shoot! It can’t be that hard, right?

There is a lot that goes into unscripted content, especially now as it has evolved and audiences have matured. It used to be that an episode of “Jon & Kate” walking through the woods could get a 4 rating… but now audiences expect/want more.

A lot of planning goes into every episode of an unscripted show. If it’s a format or game show, there’s research and casting… if it’s a docuseries, you’ve had to plan out the day, cleared locations, set up “surprises” for your talent to get them to react to scenes organically (if they know everything in advance, then what’s the fun in that?) Additionally, a lot of times you find or have to craft the story in post. It would be a lot easier if there were a script to follow, but a lot of times you have to be a creative problem solver to tell the story properly WITHOUT the benefit of a reshoot or rewrite.

The other misconception (though not totally untrue) is that "it's all staged!" While there are shows that definitely skirt that line, I think a lot of times the SITUATION may be "staged" or set up, but it's how the characters REACT that is the REAL story. I mean, look at the Bachelor, Married at First Sight, etc. Those are totally contrived situations, but we're hooked by how the characters in them react to the situation.

I know Stage 32 is for writers and anytime I see an executive that is interested in unscripted, I book a pitch session. I have had great feedback(all 5's), requests for more information and even a few requests for meetings but then nothing happens. Any suggestions on finding more executives looking for unscripted?

Thanks for doing the AMA, Timothy Kuryak and for all the answers I needed here!

Hi Terri Jay In regard to your experience, the unscripted world is becoming very niche, meaning that each network or streaming service has a very particular brand. It used to be you could have an idea and pitch it to a number of execs/networks. Now I find that each pitch truly has to be tailored specifically to the buyer you are targeting. They are all very brand sensitive and - sadly - some lack imagination to see how an idea could fit for them unless it is super specific to their brand/network/service.

In your case, I would target the execs that specialize in whatever genre you're pitching. And then even more specific, who produce the shows that yours is similar too.

Sadly, a lot of times execs will ask for materials as a courtesy. And, not to be discouraging, but the lack of a response is an answer in and of itself. In looking at your profile, are you trying to pitch a show with yourself as talent? If so, it is harder to say no to the person pitching themselves rather than a concept, especially if the pitch/meeting is in person. It may be that they like your idea, but not sure you fit what they are looking for talent wise, and if you are the show, then there's not much more to discuss.

I always say a fast no is the second best answer to yes, and not hearing anything can be frustrating (and it happens to me all the time). But it's kinda like a relationship.. if someone really likes you, they'll text/call/want to get together. If they don't, that's kinda your answer.

But if you're interested in pursuing this, you just have to find one exec that is your kindred spirit. Find an exec whose shows you admire that are IN THE GENRE you are pitching. Also, it may also be beneficial to NOT pitch them, but ask for feedback as to how you could make your pitch better.

It's tough out there, especially in the current climate, but all it takes is one person to say yes... so you need to find someone who believes in you the way you do. And that will require research on your part.

I know this isn't the best/most helpful answer, but hopefully it gives you some context and/or guidance as to how to move forward.

And with that, THANKS all for submitting questions and your kind comments about my replies.

I hope it was helpful and wish you all the best luck in moving your projects forward!

You're welcome, Timothy Kuryak. Thanks again for having this AMA. Hope you continue to have success!

Hi Timothy - It's a pleasure to hear and read about your accomplishments. At present, I'm looking for a pro Script Polisher for a 4 part TV mini Series, I know there are several web sites advertising script polishing services. If you can point me in the right direction that would be appreciated. Best Bruce

Hi, Bruce Radek. You could post an ad on the Job Board (www.stage32.com/find-jobs).

Timothy Kuryak, that is very helpful and thank you. Finding someone to pitch to is still challenging. Most of the people doing the work I do get off on the "woo-woo" of it and since I am grounded and based in physics, it's sometimes not a fit. Thanks again.

Timothy Kuryak - thanks Tim! Appreciate the long answer - seems like all of the answers are like mutual funds with divided categories inside ! Ha Ha

I should’ve been a small investor inside music - ;-)

If you want to collaborate with new people in music creation, I’m eager to share my experience and musical directions within your world. I met Doug LeBow and he’s a composer for hire - as well as with Disney ! He’s been instrumental” w/sounds and other ideas the past 2 months!

Thanks again for all your information & support. (!)

Kerry Kennard

www.KerryKennard.com

Timothy Kuryak, you've dealt with some very important issues! My immediate attention was drawn to commentaries concerning documentaries, some of which in past, I have implied of in discussions that has been ongoing relatively, for a considerable time. Understandably therefore, your advice for technicalities and concerns for, "legal questions"!

Hi Timothy...I wanted to introduce myself and say, "hello, there!" Also, my reality show pitch and sizzle reel of the talent just placed in the quarterfinals of the Scriptapalooza TV Writing Competition. An actress with a production company expressed interest in my show in March but then informed me she was too overwhelmed with her other projects and to check back with her in 6 months when her plate wouldn't be so full. On LinkedIn, Andrew Fried asked me if I had any material to send him and I said I did, but then he didn't follow up to receive my pitch. The creator of, "The Dog Whisperer with Cesar Millan," liked my pitch and said she would mentor me, but she really just wants to garden and ride her horses. I pitched my show to the partner of the creator of, "The Real Housewives," and was told Scott wasn't interested. I wanted to ask what you would you do in my situation?

I also have an unscripted show idea that is a variation of, "Who Do You Think You Are," that you may be interested in hearing about. I would be so gracious if you could give me any bit of advice you might have and thank you in advance!

Terri Jay, you should also reach out to our success team here at Stage 32 at success@stage32.com. They can suggest specific executives that are involved with Stage 32 for various services and that focus in Unscripted content.

Thank you Ashley Renee Smith. The staff has been very helpful. I just have to remind myself that it is only going to take one person. I love that I get to be in the miracle business but want more to know what is possible.