Screenwriting : Asking for feedback on my logline by Stephen Williams

Thanks for your comments Manda. I think you are right--it's too long. I appreciate the feedback!

Hi Stephen okay this logline has problems 1) it doesn't sound funny at all. You say your script is a comedy, I want to get a grin when I hear the logline and imagine several funny scenes in my head right off the bat. Maybe comedy is not your genre. I feel like one is either born funny or not, it's rare that anyone becomes funny. 2) What is the action that she takes? Being forced to examine her faith is first off not tangible, also it's more a reaction that will give you a scene or two, you need to find a tangible physical action that she takes repeatedly that forms the spine of act 2. Every movie I've seen pretty much the protagonist DOES something over and over again, whether it's investigating something, trying to stop something...
People do stuff in movies, they don't just feel things. They try plan A, plan B and plan C. This goes for indies like Dallas Buyers Club too. Their sequence of actions forms the mechanics of the plot.
I think it would be better if for example, her goal was to try and banish the gay mormons or get them kicked out of the church or shame them, and she took repeated steps to do that, but then in the end she has a change of heart.
So if her action/goal became to get rid of these gay mormons, she could start by trying to shame them, she could organize a protest, she could sabotage their efforts, she could cut off their funding, etc. She could way overboard and spread malicious rumours about them or try to have them arrested. That would push these guys to the brink. You want to push everyone to the brink in a movie, crank up the drama.
Your logline has described the situation and then the 3rd act revelation/character growth she potentially has while skipping over the meat of what happens in Act 2.
3) Also if her husband is gay can't she just walk away, distance herself from him, cut him off? Would be stronger perhaps if her teenage son was gay, she can't just walk out on him. Or the teenage son would disagree with her interpretation of the religion so he would have to choose between her son and husband and her faith.

Also I really hope this subject has some personal meaning to you because otherwise you should definitely pick another concept. I see you're from Salt Lake. I get the feeling that underlying this you'd like to make a point about faith allowing for inclusion, and a message for tolerance, this is great, but I think a better storyline and the right tone would help you achieve that goal.

Thanks, Dave. You bring up some excellent points here.

You guessed my act 2 plot. She DOES seek revenge, and then she has a change if heart. The comedic part (black comedy) is the depiction of how far people will go to appear religious. I guess I need to put that in the logline. Thank you again!

I'm just learning about loglines. It's almost easier to write the script.

I find loglines and synopses very difficult. With regard to your logline. I would try to use the word Mormon only once and I would refrain from describing it as a dark comedy and try to let the dark comedy come through in the logline itself. Not suggesting it's easy though.

LOL. I can see that this site isn't for wimps! The check's in the mail, Alle. :)

Very nice snarky comment, Alle. And it's "you're".

It's my strong belief that EVERYONE can be my teacher. (Even when they're wrong.) :)

Not saying that any of this feedback has been wrong. On the contrary, it's been enormously helpful. Thanks.

Here's a revised logline. (Again, I would greatly appreciate feedback!) LOGLINE: Sharon, a steadfast Mormon, hopes to see her family exalted in God’s kingdom in the afterlife. Her dream is shattered when her husband tells her he is gay. At first she seeks revenge, joining a vigilante group of angry housewives who catch cheating gay men. But when she stumbles onto a vast gay sex ring of devout Mormons, she has to decide whether she can she maintain her religious beliefs.

You're right--it IS too long. Really having a rough time getting it right. Here'e the irony: the script is DONE. I've gotten three glowing reviews of the screenplay. But here I am struggling with the freakin' LOGLINE. Sheesh.

"A Mormon woman is forced to re-examine her faith when her husband tells her he is gay." Just a thought.

Or maybe "A devout woman is forced to re-examine her faith when her husband exposes her to an anonymous gay sex underground-- for Mormons."

I think the underground, anonymous sex ring for Mormons is the biggest selling point of the concept. That's what I think. If you don't mind telling me, what do YOU think is the most interesting part of the concept? I've love to hear your opinion.

Your comments are greatly appreciated, by the way!

This is not a "coming out" story. Nor it is a "look how bad Mormonism is" story. This is a serio-comic look at the horrors of what can happen when sexuality is shamed and repressed. How do I communicate that in a logline?!!!

Sorry for whining. I'll figure it out. :)

What about this: When devout Mormon Sharon finds out that her husband is gay, she seeks revenge by outing gay men who cheat on their wives. But after stumbling onto a vast gay Mormon sex ring, she is forced to rethink her religious beliefs.

“Title of the Script Here” – Dark Comedy A sanctimonious Mormon’s faith is tested when her husband reveals he is gay, leading her to a vast underground community filled with anonymous sex that forces her to reexamine her devotion to the church. Not sure how well it fits to the actual script, but this seems to be a tighter version of it.

The sex ring is definitely a good selling point. Since it's not a "coming out" story, you may want to omit the husband telling his wife he's gay in the logline. "A devout woman finds out first hand the horrors of repressed sexuality when she is exposed to an underground sex ring." ??

This movie would be funnier if the town embraced her husband, the kids were totally cool with it and she was kind of just expected to be cool with it too. Then the solution would not be so obvious. As it reads now, your hero sounds like she goes from being a scorned wife to a jaded atheist. (Negative words: revenge, outing, cheat, stumbling, sex ring, forced. Positive words: devout.)

What about this: When a naive housewife stumbles upon a gay Mormon sex ring in squeaky clean Salt Lake City, she learns that sex can be a drug. Thoughts?

A Mormon wife's religious and personal world is shattered by her discovery of a gay sex ring.

I like it. Thanks, Anton!

I'm glad you like it, Stephen. I'm still learning the logline game though!

I like your concept here Stephen,

Stephen, I think you got it all at: "A dark comedy about an unwavering Mormon whose hopes for eternal Mormon glory are dashed when her husband tells her he is gay and she's forced to reexamine her faith." It seems to me her discovery of the underground orgies is not what makes her reexamine her faith but more her husband's revelations. Strong logline.

Bingo! Oriel, you hit the nail right on the head. This is the the story of a woman who has to completely change her worldview, from faith-based to reaity-based. She is pummeled by what she experiences until she surrenders. Everything else in the story is secondary.

But I can't seem to put that into a freakin' logline. It's a Job story.

Stephen: Don't know about the tagline but when I read what it's about. There is a guy on FB, Stephen Fales, who performs a one man show around the country called "Confessions of a Mormon Boy" He was raised in the mormon church, fathered 2 children and was gay. Finally he couldn't take the division any more and left the church to pursue this lifestyle. You should check him out, it may be useful to you.

The sex ring giveth, and the sex ring taketh away...

Thanks for all the input, folks! It's enormously helpful and I'm honored that you'd take the time to respond.

Ron: I do know about Steven Fales; in fact, he's a Facebook friend. I've seen his show and talked with him about it. This is very similar territory, except my script tells the story from the wife's POV.

I don't know that I'm going to be able to boil down the entire film into two sentences. The logline is just for the sake of selling, right? I'm mostly looking for something that will serve as a hook. I attended the Sundance Producer's Conference several years back. There was a "pitch session" at the end of the week (really just a gong show!). Everybody got blasted out of the water. It seemed that the panel of experts (indie film execs and agents) wasn't looking for a "correct" logline, as much as they were looking to hear something they hadn't heard before. The logline that won the $500 prize: "This is a film about the fight between Italians and Chinese over who invented noodles." When this guy said his logline, the place exploded. He didn't tell us beans about the protagonist, but he offered a fresh, funny idea and everybody went nuts.

The most effective logline is one sentence. You must shorten what you have written.

According to some advisers, a logline should provide a compelling mental picture, an element of irony to the situation. the type of hero and antagonist, and the hero's primary goal. Not an easy task for one to two sentences.

Loglines are for selling, but also a good indication of whether you have a focused story or just a bunch of random events about the same character. It is the essence of the story. I usually come up with a logline before I write my script and post it note to the monitor (these days it's on a card in my laptop). That way when I'm writing I can make sure I don't go off track. And, yes: the thing about a good screenplay is that it is something fresh and exciting, and the logline usually focuses on that. Since most people have stories that are mundane or something we've heard a million time before with no new twist of a twist that seems tacked on because it lacks unity (not organic to everything else) when someone pitches something interesting, involving and original the place explodes. I've been on pitching panels before, and the biggest problem with most people's scripts they are pitching: bland idea.

Mrs. Molly Mormon goes on a spiritual rampage after she catches her husband participating in an underground gay sex ring.

Ha! Love it. If only people understood what "Molly Mormon" meant!

I love the sound of this story, Stephen! I think the key is to keep the logline brief & make it lighter/more comic so the tone comes through.. so maybe something like: "A devout Mormon wife's view of life -- and the afterlife -- is upended when she discovers that her husband's extracurricular activities include weekly frolics in an anonymous gay underground for married Mormon men."

A Mormon housewife goes on a spiritual rampage after she catches her husband participating in an underground gay sex ring.

Brian, I still like the "sex ring" piece. Still tying to incorporate it into a two-sentence logline.

Hmm. Then again, maybe not. What about this folks: "A Mormon housewife goes on a wild spiritual odyssey after finding out that her husband is gay. Thoughts?

@Oriel: Use your imagination. The point of a logline is to get someone to read the script or watch the film. They may need to read the script to find out what a spiritual rampage is. :-)

I like that, Stephen--I wonder if you could get more detail re: the odyssey here too but still keep it short? Maybe start: "After finding out her husband is gay, a Mormon housewife goes on a wild spiritual odyssey that takes her from //input gay underground reference here// to //some climactic moment?// " ??

@Stephen: You watered it down again. :-) Remember, your title and/or logline need to capture that this is a dark comedy (hopefully without having to explicitly state it is a dark comedy). You need to keep in the underground gay sex ring. Possibilities: A housewife goes on a spiritual rampage after she catches her husband participating in a Mormon underground gay sex ring. A housewife goes on a spiritual revival after she discovers her husband is a card-carrying member of a Mormon underground gay sex ring. [For another project I was involved with ages ago—also a dark comedy—I created the logline, "The easy part is suicide. The hard part is in the casting." The logline tells you what the film is about, that it is dark, and then that it is comedic."]

Wise words. Thanks for the input, all!

I like that, Keri!

"After finding out her husband is gay, a Salt Lake City housewife goes on a wild spiritual rampage, one that takes her from uncovering a gay Mormon sex ring to blasting her religious community.”

FIRST WIVES CLUB meets BIG LOVE

Thanks, Oriel. But my situation is a bit different from yours--my script is finished. I'm happy with the script. Now I'm trying to sell it. :)

LOL--Oriel, I can see why you would think that! But the core of the story is actually very clear to me: my protagonist goes on a spiritual journey that takes her from judgmental and faith-based to reality-based and compassionate. That's the essence of the story. Everything else is part of her journey, i.e. discovering the sex ring, the vigilante women's support group, etc. My difficulty is coming up with a snappy logline. :) Thanks for your input.

I think I'm starting to get it. Thanks, all.

“A devout Mormon woman refuses to give up on her marriage, even after her husband tells her he is gay.” Or...“A devout Mormon woman fights to preserve her marriage, even after her husband tells her he is gay.”

I can now see the wisdom of STARTING with the logline, rather than struggling to come up with it after finishing the script! Live and learn. :)

You're moving away from the "funny" again. Your latter(-day) loglines are synopses you could safely present to a Mormon church elder without being excommunicated.

But these "latter" loglines tell the thrust of the story. don't they? It's the journey of my protagonist. Maybe I just need another line to bring in the "funny."

“Using religious intimation, a Mormon community conspires to keep a middle-aged couple married, even after the husband admits he’s gay.”

That might not be hilarious, but it's truly what the screenplay it about. The protagonist (the married woman) is part of "the system" until she manages to break free. Using Save the Cat parlance, this is an Institutional story. The sex rings, the vigilante groups are all part of a system that represses sexuality. And the repression/denial is the source of the comedy: highly chaotic and clandestine sexuality. I know I've been working this out online, for my own benefit. My apologies if it's been boring. Thanks for your patience.

"Religious intimation" just doesn't sound funny. I would pitch this as a drama so if people don't think it's funny you're safe.

Do you mean intimidation?

Yes, "intimidation." Sorry about the typo.

Okay, folks. For anybody who's still following this old thread, here are the current logline candidates. (If you care to respond of which one(s) you like, I WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE IT! - A devout Mormon community conspires to keep a middle-aged couple married, even after the husband admits he’s gay. - A devout Mormon woman fights to hang onto her marriage, even after her husband tells her he is gay.” - After finding out her husband is gay, a Salt Lake City housewife goes on a wild spiritual rampage and uncovers a gay Mormon sex ring - When devout Mormon Sharon finds out that her husband is gay, she seeks revenge by outing gay men who cheat on their wives. But after stumbling onto a vast gay Mormon sex ring, she is forced to rethink her religious beliefs. - Sharon, a steadfast Mormon, hopes to see her family exalted in God’s kingdom in the afterlife. Her dream is shattered when her husband tells her he is gay. At first she seeks revenge, joining a vigilante group of angry housewives who catch cheating gay men. But when she stumbles onto a vast gay Mormon sex ring in Salt Lake City, she has to decide whether she can she maintain her religious beliefs after all she’s seen. - Sharon, an unwavering Mormon, stumbles onto a vast underground of married Mormon men cruising and having anonymous gay sex in squeaky-clean Salt Lake City. - A dark comedy about a devout Mormon woman who uncovers a dark secret of Salt Lake City: gay Mormon men who cruise the streets by night, cheating on their unsuspecting wives.

And the winner is... "When a devout Mormon woman learns that her husband of twenty-five years is secretly gay, she avenges the betrayal by outing closeted gay men who cheat on their wives."

Again, thanks for allowing me to work out my logline through through the forum of this site. The input has been invaluable. (My apologies if you're sick to death of this concept!)

so what's your target audience for this film?

Leon, this is either a Sundance/Indie film or an HBO series. Educated, liberal adults = the target audience. I have written it as a feature script but there is certainly enough material for a series. I have researched this world for over ten years. The stories are so incredibly bizarre--I could never have made them up, not in a hundred years. Alle, thanks for your comment and questions. Yes, the script is finished. (One reader it called it "raucous." I think that is an accurate description.) A timid, conservative woman takes a wild ride into the underworld of Mormon Salt Lake City. The story is an expose of "institution" of fundamentalist religion. Sharon is our tour guide. In a serio-comic way, it shows the consequences a society based on religious conformity, a culture in which the "afterlife" is more important than mortal life. Inconvenient realities (such as homosexuality) simple do not exist in this world. They are swept under the rug. Her husband's coming out of the closet is the catalyst for her going on this journey. It's really about when religion turns crazy. The vigilante women's group, the underground Mormon sex ring...all of those elements are part of her journey. Her eyes are opened by these experiences. The story is essentially about her crisis of faith and her subsequent transformation.

Oh, one more thing. My current purpose is to get my marketing materials together--logline, synopsis, etc--and then to begin marketing the screenplay. The screenplay has been registered. Again, thanks for the feedback. :)

This is actually a coming-of-age story, with the protagonist having to redefine her faith in middle age.

"When a devoutly religious Salt Lake City woman learns that her husband is secretly gay, she goes on a spiritual rampage, outing closeted gay Mormon men who cheat on their wives."

Stephen, if you put as much work into the script as you put into this logline, the script is probably pretty good! At first I thought the concept was weird, but now I'm getting to see how this could be an edgy independent. Just cause it isn't my cup of tea doesn't mean a few million people wouldn't really want to see it. Sounds like a great role for a woman, maybe try and get the script to some female stars.

You're deviating from comedy and dark comedy; now it sounds like a serious drama again—even with the spiritual rampage. A Mormon housewife goes on a spiritual rampage when she discovers her husband is at the center of an underground gay sex ring.

Thanks for the comments, folks. Yes, Peter, I agree: most films about religion center on the idea of hypocrisy. Here's the twist in my film: the "hypocrites" genuinely believe that their situation is temporary and that their "condition" will vanish in the afterlife. In fact, this is the essential belief of the culture as well. So the film is not about good guys vs. bad guys (i.e. exposing the "hypocrisy)". It's a look into a strange world of religious perspective, in which the Afterlife trumps anything in this mortal life. It's sweet and absurd and horrific all at the same time. Think PHILOMENA meets FARGO

We as a species keep coming up with "what's right, what's wrong." The gay/straight issue is nothing new, just look at ancient Greece and Rome. Now, for unprotected or anonymous sex, or practices for "kicks," what came about was then, as now, is that any deviancy can be fed (and disguised) as long as there is money involved. I think that is why civilizations rise and fall, because the poor are limited to a pious behavior and are more easily whipped into a religious following that speaks evil and damnation upon the sinning "elite." However, when utter deviancy is constantly applauded, it gets worse and worse for those who are victimized by those who seek new kicks. You are dealing with the psychology of humanity here: Are we moral simply because we can afford no other lifestyle? Or are we simple people who wish not to be victimized, and live happily on our own terms? Many, many questions in this area which define the human experience. Best of luck to you!

The number of comments that this topic has generated (both positive and negative) is encouraging to me. We still (in my humble opinion) have TONS of questions about sex and what "sexual morality" means. I've written the film to address these questions, hopefully in a way that makes us laugh at the whole damn situation.

You're spot on, Chris. That is essence of this film. Now to put at all into a snappy logline, oy vey...

It would be interesting to see how she found out about the subculture, however with everyone hiding such secrets from each other, it would seem to me she would have packed up her bags and left. It's got promise! If you have this on a site or would like to shoot me a treatment, I can give you a better opinion. Kirk Carter/ Burbank, Ca.

Thanks for your input, Peter. A central theme of the film is that religious beliefs sometimes cause people do things that are totally absurd (especially beliefs about the afterlife) and that his religiously-induced mess can only be solved through forgiveness.

Peter, you're a smart guy. Thanks again for your thoughts!

"Sharon’s plans for eternal Mormon glory are shattered when her husband tells her he’s gay. Refusing to give up, she attempts to coerce him into reconsidering his sexual identity."

I feel like I'm getting a PhD in loglines. (And failing at all my courses!) :) Peter, in Mormonism a woman's eternal salvation is DIRECTLY TIED to her husband's behavior (this religious doctrine is explained in the film). A Mormon woman absolutely feels the responsibility to get her husband into heaven. A woman simply cannot be exalted in heaven without being married. That's what makes the stakes so high for Sharon (and all the rest of the devout Mormon women who are married to gay men).

I must confess that I am a bit mystified at the attention my dumb little logline seems to be getting. Don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. (Probably a bad thing.) In any case, it's been very entertaining!

How about, "Die Hard in Church"? " LOL Chris, I can now see how that little piiece of information (i.e. how Mormon women getting into heaven, etc) is absolutely CRUCIAL to understanding what's a stake for my protagonist. Thanks for your input! While Mormonism certainly isn't terrorist Islam, the belief system goes just as deep (maybe deeper). It's frightening and (hopefully) good material for a dark comedy. Many, many thanks!

I'll keep working on it. Thanks for the input!

Did you find anyone interested in your project?

Kirk, thanks so much for asking. Quite a bit has happened, actually. I'm in initial talks with a production house currently. I have no idea what will happen. But the script seems to be generating a bit of interest.

Thanks for the feedback, Ben. This was posted 8 months ago. Since then I finished my script; it is currently being considered for production. Logline assistance, however, is always welcome.