Screenwriting : Why did we like these protagonists? by Jean-Pierre Chapoteau

I didn't see "NightCrawler" -- but pls remember that there are scenes that wind up deleted. Maybe the "Save the Cat" moment was in the script but cut in the editing room. Write a nice scene that shows his humanity ---- in an arresting special way.

I think those particular protags appeal because they appear unencumbered and free, they are also mad and unhinged, so maybe we all like the darker side soemtimes, at least watching it.

Get the book Writing for Emotional Impact. The author talks a lot about the qualities that make a character likeable, and most of them aren't anything like "niceness". (Some samples: undeserved misfortune, passion. loneliness...) The protagonist of my current screenplay is a horrible person. I'm betting years of my life on the idea that an audience might be sympathetic to her, at least for a while... :)

Kerry, well now i want to read it... your screenplay that is.

Adding to what Anthony said ---- that's one reason why we like to see films like "Scarface," "The Godfather," "American Gangster," etc.

JP, remind me in about a week, when I hope to have my first draft!

Same reason we like House and Darth Vader; because of their Skill(s)

When they say the main character must be likeable, it doesn't mean they must be nice, just interesting to watch. Probably the only requisite for a watchable main character is that they 'protag'; they are proactive in advancing the plot. Make them passive or irrelevant to the plot and no matter how likeable they are, the viewer will BEGIN to lose interest. In Nightcrawler we have a main character who is obsessed with moving his life forward, so even if there was absolutely nothing to like about him, he would still be interesting to watch. Other things that make people watchable might be that they are someone to admire, they have great style, are successful, or are relatable. I suspect in Nightcrawler, his proactive attitude, his confidence and his growing success make him watchable, even though he has a creepy style and is not a person to admire.

We have this conversation a lot in my writers group. I feel like the term likable is problematic, just for those reasons you mentioned. Think about the guys in Seinfield. Are they particularly nice people? No. But they're so funny and so unapologetic, that we want to see them more. Jake Gyllenhall in Nightcrawler, even though he's not a likable person, we respect what he's trying to do (in the beginning). He's down on his luck and is trying to make something of himself. Most people can relate to that. I don't think the question is whether we like them or not. It should be whether we care about this character and there are many ways to do that.

I think Owen gets to the heart of it. You don't have to like the protagonist, only be fascinated by him or the story he's part of enough to want to keep watching/turning pages.

Owen's right, except for the part where he says Tony Montana isn't likable. Disagree with that part.

So what's the point of the "save the cat" moments? Why is that a term if we don't have to like the protagonist?

Maybe for a truly despicable character you need a kill the cat moment. Show that the character has resolve and determination. In House of Cards, Frank Underwood almost literally kills the cat (puts an injured dog out its misery with his bare hands). In Nightcrawler, the main character kills the security guard and takes his watch. It depends on what movie you are making. If you don't have a save the cat moment, you'd better have something else up your sleeve to make the viewer want to sit through two hours of watching your character.

I'd argue that your protagonist DOES have to be likable. It's probably just a question of the definition of "likable". Like Owen, I wouldn't invite Tony Montana to a barbecue, but I'd probably enjoy having a beer with him if I could be assured he wasn't going to shoot me. (I mean, the Tony from the first half of the movie. Paranoid coke-head Tony would probably be a real pill.) But likable isn't synonymous with admirable, nice or moral. Charisma, professionalism, tenacity and sense of humor are all qualities that can make someone likable. They're also all character attributes of both John McClane AND Hans Gruber, you know? Anyway, whatever the word, save the cat/pet the dog is a quick way to achieve likability, and it's a Hollywood convention, but it isn't the ONLY way. Again, I recommend Writing for Emotional Impact for its chapter on this topic.

Whenever someone says the protagonist has to be likable I think of two films: Requiem for a Dream and Glengarry Glen Ross. Both brilliant movies, neither with a likable character for miles. Granted, most movies don't operate this way, but I think that if the story is interesting then watching the events unfold, no matter the characters, will keep the audience's attention.

Jean-Pierre - I haven't seen NIGHTCRAWLER, but I have a few theories as to why people like Patrick Bateman in AMERICAN PSYCHO. For one, many of Bateman's impulses and attitudes are things we all feel. We all have ids or dark sides or whatever we choose to call them; the great majority of us just don't let them get out of hand to the point of committing murder. Also, many of the other characters Bateman interacts with come off worse than he does, in many ways. In the movie, pretty much the only likable characters besides Bateman are his secretary and Willem Dafoe as the private investigator (and maybe the gay guy with the crush on Bateman); everybody else is a horrible yuppie asshole, a non-genuine person made up of name brands and "name" colleges and prep schools. Alongside them, Bateman comes across as being much more real by comparison. Finally, there's that aspect of the movie by which the viewer's made to question how reliable a narrator Bateman is. Is Bateman really a murderer - or is the whole story just his elaborate venting-fantasy? If he's not really a murderer, then the only really bad angle to him isn't even a factor. With all that in mind, if I wanted to create a despicable protagonist whom people would nonetheless still like and want to see succeed, I'd create one with whom they could GUILTILY or SECRETLY identify. Doesn't hurt to emphasize some aspect of the character that people might aspire to share, either (Bateman being handsome/rich)...see also Don Draper in MAD MEN.

An Anti-Hero can still be a true protagonist. You can "like" them by watching their downfall.