Screenwriting : Hmmm is less on page necessarily better? by Alden Tan

Here's the other shot

Well, the first version is certainly efficient, but rather "thin" meaning it lacks tone/emotion. However, the expanded rewrite goes a bit too far in my opinion; it's overwritten, redundant. There's probably a happy medium between the two. The point of this article... When writing a spec you are writing for a reader, for an audience of one. And you are the only person responsible. Only your words and your execution create an experience for your reader. No director, no music, no cinematographer, no actors, no wonderful teams of collaborators -- just you. So with a spec the narrative is more important than the general "blue print" (production) aspects of your script. You must accomplish a helluva lot before someone or yourself takes that spec, invests in it, and develops it into the makings of a film. It all starts on the page. You gotta win over that reader first. ;)

It's also a little hard to judge them on their own, without knowing what came before. It seems like much of the information in the rewrite should have been conveyed in an earlier scene or scenes.

"[H]ot desert heat" yikes: cliche city.

I agree with Beth & James on this. The first rendition is lifeless, flat and passive - avoid those "ing" words. The second version is redundant. This is one scene in the story's flow - we already know when and where we are. Why waste precious story time and page count with the excessive exposition? You have 100 pages (mol) to work with - don't waste 'em.

Agreed, although I'm sure the writer exaggerated to make the point. My guess is they didn't use an example from a produced script due to legal reasons, although they would have been well within their rights to do so, as it's for educational purposes.

C Harris: the script was taken from the article writer's consulting business. It was a spec from a client.

Less is better when more is not needed.

Agree with the thoughts above with one afterthought. Be judicious in when to employ exposition. If it's a scene of a guy just driving and searching the streets for something and not pivotal, probably less is more. If it's a pivotal moment then a bit more exposition would do some good. Too much exposition can slow things down however as well. I agree with Beth above that the second iteration might have gone a bit too far.

The guy basically climbs out of the grave and we have two separate action lines where he stands there in the sun and then checks his wound then notices the girl laying their dying. I kinda wonder if a girl bleeding (I guess she is completely silent?) would be the third thing you'd just notice/become aware of after climbing out of a grave.

It became a little too slow.

Show don't tell. I think it applies here, so if I had to chose, the second version is better, only if this is the beginning of the script, to set the tone, let us know about the characters...I hope this makes sense..? I agree with what our BETH Fox said, great hearing from all of you here, fellow writers.

As an exercise, how many of you would be willing to rewrite that scene and make your version available for educational purposes?

That's an excellent idea Doug! Maybe the more advanced here could give it a shot for us beginners?

Martina - I thought it would be helpful but I'll bet there will be few if any. Any comments at all will most likely why they can't (or won't) help. Sad.

I will... assume you are too Doug, given it was your idea?

Dan M - it's just an exercise, answer the 3 Mamet questions (assume you've started the course now?) for yourself, i.e. make it up ;-)

Then you can edit the scene as the characters are now yours.

So for educational purposes only, a quick re-draft, hopefully an improvement on the first version but not as purple as the second one...

A MEXICAN GIRL writhes on the ground and MOANS in pain as blood seeps from the ragged wound in her side. She tries to stem the flow, but her tiny hands are no match for the violence she's suffered.

An arm appears over the lip of the pit, and another as Sean uses his elbows to clamber out and complete his unlikely resurrection.

He gingerly touches the bullet wound on his forehead, winces; it's deep, still bleeding, but not fatal.

The girl MOANS again.

Sean looks to her, registers the panic in her eyes as she reaches out for him. He moves to her, but she shakes her head, points at something beyond him.

A small doll, half buried in the earth.

He gives her the doll, which she hugs tenderly and mouths 'Gracias' at him, before drawing her final shallow breath.

Dan M, that is correct - we don't know the story line, we have no idea where the scene falls within the story flow. There is much that we don't know so make it up. If you want to be a staff writer, you face this sort of thing every morning when you stumble into the Writer's Room with your latté. Show us what you got, but don't come up with some excuse that you can't'

Thanks Dan and Anthony, it's great to see more experienced writers' approach, it's super-helpful in understanding the concept of voice. Very much appreciated :)

Dan M: Writing style helps tell a story visually, does it not? LOL! ;)

Okay, below is my quick and dirty rewrite, or rather edit — just for educational purposes, just for fun, right? Working with the writer's cues, her/his words and intent; Sean being the protagonist, the girl just happening to be there. I tried to blend the two versions somewhat, fixing the grammatical errors, the many redundancies, etc. ;)

An arm reaches out of the freshly dug hole, then another. Sean pulls, claws his way out of his supposed final resting place.

He stands there in the Mexican desert heat. Dazed. Confused. Covered in dirt, blood, and lime powder.

He checks the bullet wound to his forehead, grimaces -- it hurts like hell, but not fatal. He notices…

A GIRL

lying on her back in a pool of blood. She clutches at a shotgun blast to her stomach, gasping for air. She clamors for him, desperate.

Sean stumbles over to her, drops to his knees.

He takes her hand, but she pulls away and points. Sean follows her gaze to a toy doll laying in the dirt.

He grabs it, places it into her arms. She cradles the doll, almost motherly.

Sean stares down at her. There’s a flicker of gratitude, then sadness in her eyes.

The girl takes her last breath, and dies.

I agree with Martina. Reading more experienced writers' approaches, who are currently having their work produced, is super helpful, and greatly appreciated. Thanks, Anthony and Dan. And also thanks Doug for proposing the idea. I agree with Beth, too, that writing style does help tell a story visually. Each of the examples created different images in my mind, even though it had the same story idea.

Anthony: Really like your added touch of the girl mouthing "gracias." With that language detail, it defines her without calling her "a Mexican girl." Read over your version without that label. I'm with Owen on that... I found it unnecessary. If we are in Mexico, then why label her? Of course we don't have prior scenes to inform the one we are rewriting, but it goes to reason that the location and people have been established before this scene. So to me, labeling her is not needed and redundant. ;)

Tx Beth...

And I don't normally mention the race of anyone in my scripts, just took the cue from the original... and then came up with the 'gracias' bit.

Sure, absolutely, Anthony. Me too. ;) Just saying, that's a great way to inform your reader through authentic detail, subtext, etc. I think the biggest issue with the expanded scene example is the redundancy: repeated words, repeated information, etc. If you glance through all our rewrites/edits we all addressed that problem. ;)

Agree Beth, wonder if the original writer is aware we're doing free script doctoring for him/her ;-)

Haha! :-) Yeah, perhaps we're doing our own version of a scene/page review, just like Scriptnotes' three page challenge. Love that! John August and Craig Mazin giving notes. ...BTW, in one of their more recent podcasts they take umbrage with that term/phrase, "script doctoring," saying it's not a thing, to not use that label. Where the hell did that come from?! No one calls it that within the industry. It's being hired as a writer to do a rewrite. So don't call yourself a "script doctor!"—just don't! LOL! ;)

Yeah, always funny when Craig goes into an umbrage tirade ;-)

Yeah, they crack me up!

Ah, I see, a degree in bullsh*t. Got it. Lol, Dan G! ;)))

Dan G - I had to Google PhD in screenwriting 'cause I couldn't believe it! But you are right, it is a thing...

Good catch with the scene heading, Dan G. Yeah, GRAVE, probably would be a secondary heading? But we don't have prior scenes to analyze. ...Anyway, some of those choices are exposition and description of what we are seeing; what emotion, or what a character may be evoking, what's crossing over their face, what's happening. "Sean realizes," not a great choice here, true, but that paints a picture in my mind: a look, or a synapse (got it, I understand), or a subtle action. "Almost motherly" that creates an image too, a look of known emotion/meaning. It also describes a subtext and/or raises a question. Okay, how old is this girl? Does she have a child? Is the doll hers? Or her child's? It's also style, an attempt at tone. I think if this writer just kept going, kept reworking this scene, it probably would be better. Those "tells" would be better crafted. ;)

Yes, Dan G, I know. Absolutely. And yet I see exception to that everywhere, in every single screenplay I read. Lol! ;)

Oh, c'mon now, I highly doubt your writing is poor. Highly doubt it! Lol! ;) Besides, don't all creatives hate their own work? I guess that's what drives us: to keep improving, building, discovering. ;) ....I dunno, I've had the opposite experience writing specs, studying the craft, the encouraging advice I receive and actively seek out... As long as it is engaging, or it just works, right? It seems to always boil down to the intangible qualities of a particular screenplay and its specific context. What works in one may not fly in another. I read a ton of scripts, of all kinds, from all different levels of writers. So perhaps I'm seeing a really wide variety of writing styles/voices? I don't mean to sound dismissive about common practices, not at all. I study them. And I know you have extensive professional experience, Dan G. As an aspiring writer myself, I always appreciate your insights. :)

Getting back to the article that Alden posted... When writing a spec, the narrative is extremely important in your execution — avoiding ambiguity and confusion, creating an engaging/emotional experience for your reader, style, tone, clarity, better articulating and understanding nuance. You must capture the intuitive on the page. From the article: "Executing the story on the page is everything. It’s the difference between the reader understanding the nuance of your story or not. Between them being engaged in the read or not. Between them continuing to read it or tossing it." ;) Anyhoo, I agree with Owen in that without further context this little exercise is limiting. But... it also allowed us to demonstrate/discuss how to balance visual storytelling (what's shown) with elements (nuances) without redundancies and overwriting. That when used well they paint a vivid picture in the mind of your reader and create an emotional response. ;)

This exercise was very helpful to me not because I was looking for a right/wrong way of rewriting that particular scene, but to see the different ways people write - different voices. Plus this discussion is very beneficial to me because there isn't a big choice of writing groups where I live. I just joined one but it's very broad (novels, poetry etc...), so having this group is a sort of "writers room", which not everybody likes but I do, the brainstorming is fantastic and having more experienced writers is a bonus. Thank you all for the input.

Doug???

Okay Ima take a shot at it myself... Here we go!

EXT. THE GRAVE- SECONDS LATER

Sean comes back to life and digs his way out of his own grave.

He stands, confused and disoriented. He looks around, like what the fuck?

There is a gunshot wound to his head. He touches it. He notices

A MEXICAN GIRL

Lying on her back nearby. She has a shotgun wound to her stomach. Blood pours out, like everywhere. She rasps, struggling to stay alive. It's a gruesome sight.

Sean stumbles over to her. He notices her staring at a TINY TOY DOLL by her side, her trembling hand reaching out desperately for it.

Sean dives down for the doll and hands it to her.

The girl takes it with the last of her strength, barely able to hold it up.

The doll falls into her own blood as she dies.

Dan M, the challenge from Doug was specifically to re-write this particular scene, I think a bunch of us did it as he kinda called out the regs on here, suggesting we wouldn't (couldn't?) re-write it. I think the assertion was that a lot of people on here talk about writing but don't evidence it, and Doug may be right on that.

Personally happy to show otherwise, but I also post all my short scripts on here too, so anyone can check out my writing if they're interested enough.

Surely a re-write on location depends on if the writer is there, which is not the case for all (many) movies or TV, so in those circumstances on the fly re-writes are likely producer/director(?)

And of course this is a spec, nowhere near production as far as I'm aware, producer could well say 'grave scene, nope, edit it out'.