Great resources John! I like writing a story summary, then a longer summary of each of the acts, and a beat sheet before going to write. Whenever I try including cards I always stall out. I think it's because it just feels like too much work for me. I like the concept though.
Great share, Anthony Murphy. I mainly use Microsoft Word to outline, but I might use the outline feature in Final Draft 12 for my next script. It'd be nice to have everything in one place.
Thx for the share, Anthony Murphy. I've dabbled with FD's beat board and index card features but they don't seem to flow for me as well as they're intended. I can't give a specific reason as to why, unfortunately, though the visual presentation might be part of it. I prefer my initial outlines to sprawl and expand (bullet points with one or more sub bullet points) in top-down fashion.
Ty Strange The more I think about it I have a theory that the cards just make it too hard to see the story as a whole. I think I like to catch the story in bigger tighter visual shots like an easy to scroll beat sheet, then going back and forth through cards that, once tucked away, feel too out of reach in the creative moment. Maybe that's just me though.
Anthony Murphy everyone teaches it differently. Have you read John Truby's "Anatomy of Story"? I keep telling everyone about it. I think it is such a wonderful way to learn how to set up a story really well.
Anthony Murphy Well John, not everyone says to outline. The only thing I outline are things like series, so that I know long term, where the story's going. I tend to start writing specs scripts, with the scenes, action sequences and dialogue that excites me to write it in the first place. (Truby is also a fan of this approach).
Then the work starts! How does this fit into the story I want to tell? Where do these pieces fit? And by the time I you have started with this, strange things happen and more material starts to fire in the imagination.
Find your own method and commit to that. The longer you follow your own path the more confident you become with your creative gift. We are here for you, so don't worry about having to walk this path alone.
Maurice Vaughan I know I don't, but there's a reason that the vast majority of screenwriters do, so I'm trying to learn it, even if I just outline a few scenes ahead a t a time.
Geoff Hall Thank you, Geoff. My writing process is very similar to yours. As I told Maria, I just started John Truby last night, so I'm very excited to finish it after you and Maria both recommended it. I tend to get a story all at once, usually after starting it and getting stuck, and then the solution comes to me all at once. Suppose outlining right now for me is like understanding structure well enough to disregard aspects of it.
Employers want to see outlines so they can own the idea from jump, give notes, be part/be ahead of the process.(tv crews scout locations, cast, build sets off outlines; they prep before approval scripts. Big studio movies have workers doing stuff before an approved script. My VFX friend worked on Avatar sequels for 2/3 years without scripts; just outlines & sketches.
If you're just interested in doing your specs on your own time, nobody will care about outlines. Until you get a rep agent and they want to see outlines & synopsis.
Dan MaxXx Your advice in previous posts is why I'm trying to learn it. I don't need it to write specs, but if I get asked for an outline by an exec or industry pro, I want to know it when I need it.
Anthony Murphy That's awesome about Truby! Don't get too overwhelmed by it. I went through the book twice and practiced the process with a few different ideas. I found there were places where just my inexperience made the execution of some concepts difficult. However, the more I keep the teachings in mind and grow as a writer the more I can see what was meant. Over time I understand a little more how to apply the concepts through trial and error and experience.
Anthony Murphy Hi again, John. Thanks for your reply. I'm also reading Truby's book on Genres, which I've found even more interesting. When I'm starting a new project, I read the relevant chapter and it helps focus my mind, but also then understand where the beats are expected for that genre. Sorry, I've probably just doubled your reading list!
Anthony Murphy I have found this more helpful than the Anatomy book, which for me is too dense. I certainly couldn’t incorporate all of his rules while writing.
Screenwriting's maybe most misinterpreted profession in the world...masses think it's only about selling your own original ideas (and scripts) to the world for like $500K-4mill and then living a rock star life...well that's about of 0.005% of the job and if ure lucky...time for guys like S. Black to come "alive' and start debunking stuff...
Coming from the world of process improvement there are tools I use in the corporate world that I love for planning out screenplays. One of those is Trello (trello.com). They have a free version which is helpful if you're on a budget and don't want to use a screenwriting software. Like a lot of you I've tried the index cards, the white board and the outline and Trello seems to feel like the best of all 3 to me.
Trello is meant for task sharing across teams. It can be used in different ways but most teams use it as a Kanban board or an Agile Sprint board. You setup your buckets or columns generally from the start of a project on the left to completed on the right. It facilitates going from concept to completion. You can google ways to use trello and they also have templates available but here are some reasons why I like it.
1. Shareable - Multiple team members can work on the scene flow or add comments within the scene itself
2. Brainstorming - Starting a new task is as simple as hitting the enter key. Like typing out an outline, it's really easy to get a quick list of scene ideas in the first column.
3. Detail - Each task can hold a lot of detailed information about the scenes.
4. Labels - I use labels to apply thematic elements to the scenes once I start developing them. They show up at the top of the task making it easy to see where you have conflict, resolution or just storytelling.
5. Team Meetings - Trello was designed for teams so it's easy to share at production meetings and make changes / notes live as they're happening.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Hope it helps if you're struggling to find a tool that fits your writing style.
I appreciate the excellent resource, Anthony Murphy. I used to write by the seat of my pants and wasted a lot of time going off into tangents. Things come to me like a kaleidoscope... I guess that's okay if you're The Daniels. I need the focus.
I used to outline with a spreadsheet. I've tried basically every kind of software that's appeared over the years. I looked for software that helps you to write a beat sheet, and then, using the big-picture sections of the beat sheet as a guide, allows you to drill down and turn the big-picture beat sheet into a scene-by-scene step-outline. I tried gingko, storyplanner, prewrite, trello, stc, Now I use www.scriptoutliner.com because it's free and exports to everything
I think it's necessary to outline or at least plan something first before writing it. Be it an essay, a script or a novel. Otherwise, you will get lost in abstraction.
4 people like this
Great resources John! I like writing a story summary, then a longer summary of each of the acts, and a beat sheet before going to write. Whenever I try including cards I always stall out. I think it's because it just feels like too much work for me. I like the concept though.
4 people like this
Great share, Anthony Murphy. I mainly use Microsoft Word to outline, but I might use the outline feature in Final Draft 12 for my next script. It'd be nice to have everything in one place.
5 people like this
Thx for the share, Anthony Murphy. I've dabbled with FD's beat board and index card features but they don't seem to flow for me as well as they're intended. I can't give a specific reason as to why, unfortunately, though the visual presentation might be part of it. I prefer my initial outlines to sprawl and expand (bullet points with one or more sub bullet points) in top-down fashion.
We all have our own methods to the madness.
5 people like this
Ty Strange The more I think about it I have a theory that the cards just make it too hard to see the story as a whole. I think I like to catch the story in bigger tighter visual shots like an easy to scroll beat sheet, then going back and forth through cards that, once tucked away, feel too out of reach in the creative moment. Maybe that's just me though.
5 people like this
Your theory captures my thinking/process, Maria Restivo Glassner. That's why I enjoy whiteboards because I can see, literally, the bigger picture.
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Haha Ty Strange yes! My whiteboard takes up so much space but I love it!
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Ty Strange YW. I'm trying to figure outlining out. I've always written by the seat of my pants, but everyone says you got to outline, so...
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You don't have to outline, Anthony Murphy, but it helps.
5 people like this
Anthony Murphy everyone teaches it differently. Have you read John Truby's "Anatomy of Story"? I keep telling everyone about it. I think it is such a wonderful way to learn how to set up a story really well.
5 people like this
Anthony Murphy Well John, not everyone says to outline. The only thing I outline are things like series, so that I know long term, where the story's going. I tend to start writing specs scripts, with the scenes, action sequences and dialogue that excites me to write it in the first place. (Truby is also a fan of this approach).
Then the work starts! How does this fit into the story I want to tell? Where do these pieces fit? And by the time I you have started with this, strange things happen and more material starts to fire in the imagination.
Find your own method and commit to that. The longer you follow your own path the more confident you become with your creative gift. We are here for you, so don't worry about having to walk this path alone.
All the best,
Geoff
3 people like this
Maria Restivo Glassner I literally have a copy of Truby's "The Anatomy of Story" beside me. I just started reading it last night.
3 people like this
Maurice Vaughan I know I don't, but there's a reason that the vast majority of screenwriters do, so I'm trying to learn it, even if I just outline a few scenes ahead a t a time.
4 people like this
Geoff Hall Thank you, Geoff. My writing process is very similar to yours. As I told Maria, I just started John Truby last night, so I'm very excited to finish it after you and Maria both recommended it. I tend to get a story all at once, usually after starting it and getting stuck, and then the solution comes to me all at once. Suppose outlining right now for me is like understanding structure well enough to disregard aspects of it.
4 people like this
Cool, Anthony Murphy. You could also outline short scripts for practice.
6 people like this
Employers want to see outlines so they can own the idea from jump, give notes, be part/be ahead of the process.(tv crews scout locations, cast, build sets off outlines; they prep before approval scripts. Big studio movies have workers doing stuff before an approved script. My VFX friend worked on Avatar sequels for 2/3 years without scripts; just outlines & sketches.
If you're just interested in doing your specs on your own time, nobody will care about outlines. Until you get a rep agent and they want to see outlines & synopsis.
4 people like this
Dan MaxXx Your advice in previous posts is why I'm trying to learn it. I don't need it to write specs, but if I get asked for an outline by an exec or industry pro, I want to know it when I need it.
5 people like this
Anthony Murphy That's awesome about Truby! Don't get too overwhelmed by it. I went through the book twice and practiced the process with a few different ideas. I found there were places where just my inexperience made the execution of some concepts difficult. However, the more I keep the teachings in mind and grow as a writer the more I can see what was meant. Over time I understand a little more how to apply the concepts through trial and error and experience.
5 people like this
Anthony Murphy Hi again, John. Thanks for your reply. I'm also reading Truby's book on Genres, which I've found even more interesting. When I'm starting a new project, I read the relevant chapter and it helps focus my mind, but also then understand where the beats are expected for that genre. Sorry, I've probably just doubled your reading list!
4 people like this
The Masterclass article is, in my mind, the superior one. Thanks for sharing, John.
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Great behind-the-scenes info, Dan MaxXx.
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Geoff Hall Thanks for doubling my reading list . I ordered Truby's book on Genre last night.
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Dan Guardino I hate outlining too, but it seems to be the expected, so I want to learn it in case an exec asks for an outline
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Marcel Nault Jr. YW. I thought the Masterclass article was well done too.
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Maria Restivo Glassner Oh, I like your white board. My wife's going to love one of those in our dining room.
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Anthony Murphy I have found this more helpful than the Anatomy book, which for me is too dense. I certainly couldn’t incorporate all of his rules while writing.
I hope you enjoy ‘Genres’!
6 people like this
thats the screenwriting career: assignment gigs. there was a poll of union writers and 80/85% of income are assignments.
Top writers like Coen Bros, Kaufman, Diablo Cody, Billy Ray stay busy rewriting.
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Screenwriting's maybe most misinterpreted profession in the world...masses think it's only about selling your own original ideas (and scripts) to the world for like $500K-4mill and then living a rock star life...well that's about of 0.005% of the job and if ure lucky...time for guys like S. Black to come "alive' and start debunking stuff...
5 people like this
Coming from the world of process improvement there are tools I use in the corporate world that I love for planning out screenplays. One of those is Trello (trello.com). They have a free version which is helpful if you're on a budget and don't want to use a screenwriting software. Like a lot of you I've tried the index cards, the white board and the outline and Trello seems to feel like the best of all 3 to me.
Trello is meant for task sharing across teams. It can be used in different ways but most teams use it as a Kanban board or an Agile Sprint board. You setup your buckets or columns generally from the start of a project on the left to completed on the right. It facilitates going from concept to completion. You can google ways to use trello and they also have templates available but here are some reasons why I like it.
1. Shareable - Multiple team members can work on the scene flow or add comments within the scene itself
2. Brainstorming - Starting a new task is as simple as hitting the enter key. Like typing out an outline, it's really easy to get a quick list of scene ideas in the first column.
3. Detail - Each task can hold a lot of detailed information about the scenes.
4. Labels - I use labels to apply thematic elements to the scenes once I start developing them. They show up at the top of the task making it easy to see where you have conflict, resolution or just storytelling.
5. Team Meetings - Trello was designed for teams so it's easy to share at production meetings and make changes / notes live as they're happening.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Hope it helps if you're struggling to find a tool that fits your writing style.
3 people like this
Trying to attach a better image of Trello
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I appreciate the excellent resource, Anthony Murphy. I used to write by the seat of my pants and wasted a lot of time going off into tangents. Things come to me like a kaleidoscope... I guess that's okay if you're The Daniels. I need the focus.
4 people like this
I used to outline with a spreadsheet. I've tried basically every kind of software that's appeared over the years. I looked for software that helps you to write a beat sheet, and then, using the big-picture sections of the beat sheet as a guide, allows you to drill down and turn the big-picture beat sheet into a scene-by-scene step-outline. I tried gingko, storyplanner, prewrite, trello, stc, Now I use www.scriptoutliner.com because it's free and exports to everything
3 people like this
!Robin Gregory YW.
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Fred Gooltz Thank you.
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Thank you for sharing. I will check this out.
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I think it's necessary to outline or at least plan something first before writing it. Be it an essay, a script or a novel. Otherwise, you will get lost in abstraction.