Happy New Year everyone! Will it be a New Year or just a continuation of the old one? I wasn't really sure what Lounge to put this post Maurice, if there's a better place for this, I'm sure you'll move it over there.
So I was contacted by an entertainment attorney (20 years in the business) about possibly helping me find financing for my independent film. It's an action/thriller film which genres are always near the top of market shares on a yearly basis, I have a very talented cast comprised of veteran and newcomer talent eagerly hoping I make things happens and it comes with a $1.5M price tag which we all know films of this nature usually sport a budget of over $10M-$15M (sometimes more) to pull off this type of film. It has a main character that is prolific throughout society and yet, rarely is a main character. It has humor, horror elements and suspense throughout.
Now this "entertainment lawyer" who has been in the business 20 years, looked over what I had and came to the conclusion that there were too many "unknowns." Not that his IMDB page was any reason to be optimistic because, he didn't have an abundance of successes listed, but this entire industry is based on unknowns. There are no guarantees ever in this business. EVER!
You try and gather a cast that will work for your planned budget and you craft your frames and your compositions in the most artistic way possible. You record your sound so that it's crystal clear and try and coax a performance out of your actors that will connect with people. You aim everything for a result that will encourage multiple viewings with as close to an equal enthusiasm a viewer had when he watched your film the first time. THAT IS THE ONLY GOAL YOU SHOULD HAVE!
If you achieve that, all of the "unknowns" cease to exist. You can't formulate sales numbers in any market until the film project is completed because there's a chance the film will suck. Advertising seems to be money being thrown down a toilet since we have such an extensive social media network. If you pop out a trailer a month before your film releases and people haven't even heard of it, you did a lousy job of promoting it. Promotion starts once the contracts are signed and the budget is in the bank.
So in the finest form of irony on the planet, there are no unknowns in the film industry because everything is an unknown and everyone knows that. If you're a numbers guy as opposed to a talent buzz guy as opposed to a content guy, none of you know anything for sure. You can blow sunshine up someone's butt and still not have any concrete facts to base anything on. You just have to reduce financial risk for investors and create entertainment reward for your audience. If you think big names and big budgets help reveal unknowns, you should spend your money elsewhere because you have no idea what you're doing unless you need a $30M tax write off.
Happy New Year and let's hope your investment dollars don't end up as black smoke against a blue sky.
You're welcome.
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social media should be part of your promotion, marketing campaign.
Happy New Year, Philip David Lee! I moved your post to the Financing/Crowdfunding Lounge since it's mainly about financing. There are a lot of unknowns in this business, and unknown directors, writers, actors, etc. do the best work sometimes. Some of the best acting I've seen was by unknown actors in indie films. I don't know a lot about investing, but I've heard over and over that investors know that they might not make back their money. Making back the money is an unknown, and investors still invest (for different reasons). I hope you find investors who look pass the unknowns and see how exciting/unique your film is!
I completely disagree with you, although I understand your indignation at the difficulties in the film business. I think professionals give you useful advice, but you don't want to listen to them based on your own understanding of the business.
The truth is that movie theaters don't need low-budget movies. they will be happy to show failed blockbusters, because they will still earn money by selling food. to recoup the cost of showing a movie, the cinema needs only 5-7 viewers. cinemas want to show high-budget films with good advertising.
You can be outraged as much as you want, but a million dollar movie is content for YouTube. There are a lot of people who haven't earned anything by making a million dollar movie. and the pros understand that you risk joining them.
but there are success stories, however, you will have to contact the owners of small cinemas yourself and arrange the sessions of your film. There are a large number of sites that broadcast non-mainstream films. therefore, instead of angry topics, it's better to start looking for cinemas for your cinema.
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I agree with you Arthur Charpentier
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Arthur Charpentier I understand where you're coming from, Arthur, but your logic seems a little flawed. You're basically saying all films made with a budget under, what $5M? is that your cut off? Those films are failures and big budget movies need only 7 viewers to make money? Mathematically, that makes no sense whatsoever.
So based on what you labeled as "my understanding" of the business, I make a movie for $1.5M which you think is going to suck right off the bat. Why? Who knows. You don't know who the cast is nor have any idea of the content of the story but you have already called it a bomb. It must be nice to have that kind of crystal ball skill to see the future, but whatever.
Now my goal for this film is to have a theatrical release and sell 5,000,000 tickets.at the average ticket price of $10.78. If I can make a film that can get into 1,500 theaters, each theater would have to sell 3,333 tickets.let's say over a one week, three showings a day theater run. Each showing would need approximately 158 customers per showing. Again, these are goals to reach for.
Let's take UNSUNG HERO. This was a drama that, according to genre, was 8.93% of the total market share of 2024 out of 186 films with a total of 72.19M tickets sold. UNSUNG HERO opened in 2,832 theaters and had an average theater run of 3.8 weeks. It's domestic run generated a revenue of $20M. It didn't have a recognizable cast, it was a faith based film which could have helped it or hurt it depending where you'r preferences lie. How do your parameters explain those results?
Now my film is an action/ thriller film. Action is the #1 genre with a market share of 28.92%. It has a planned "R" rating which is in 3rd place of the market shares with 28.78% and the source material is an original screenplay which is 1st in the market shares at 54.97%. Ultimately, what I'm saying is that I have the knowledge and skills to make a great film that contains elements of the top market shares. If you don't think you can't make a movie that can sell 5,000,000 tickets out of a population of 340M, you really shouldn't be a filmmaker. Calling it unrealistic is having a defeatist attitude before you go into battle. That's never a good mindset.
THAT'S THE BUSINESS OF THE FILM INDUSTRY. At the very least, that's what it should be about. Equipment rental is a constant so everything else in a big budget film is overpaying for something. Execution is where the talent proves its mettle. If one is not ready to step up, they should just step off.
Philip David Lee
In fact, the business does not work the way you describe in your plans. You can't get 1,500 theaters with three shows a day for a movie for one and a half million dollars, without stars and ads. The final. This is the objective reality.
Philip David Lee
I didn't mean the payback of the film, but the payback of the cinema. To pay off the cinema's work, 5-7 per audience per session is enough for it. Everything else is profit. Therefore, cinemas do not care about the quality of films, they care about the budget, advertising and prestige of the film. I think all cinema sessions have already been divided by major studios until 2027. sessions are available only at unpopular times. You are mistaken if you think that distributors can get any cinemas and the number of shows. You should either listen to their advice or arrange for a cinema screening yourself.
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Cinemas need growth of profit in order to expand. If David Lee has something really special, let's say a project like The Blairwitch or Resevoir Dogs, those productions can be highly competative with blockbusters on streamers and in cinemas by major studios. If you execute it high quality and market it well enough - that's experience and knowledge. But there's an immense risk, what makes it really hard to find investors. Maybe Jimmy Nsubuga is interested, he's an agent for investors from the US.
Arthur Charpentier Who said I didn't have stars? Who said I'm not planning an advertisement campaign? How do you define a star? Before every actor "became a star," they were unknowns. If you put anyone in a movie, they become stars because you mention them as "starring in" your film. A-list talent gauntness nothing. Why am I paying someone $15M to "star" in a film when I can make 3 or 4 films which gives investors a better chance to recoup their investment.
As far as theaters goes, what exactly are their overhead costs? Their locations aren't free if they're renting or paying property taxes. They have to pay their employees. They have to stock the snack stand. You think 50% of 7 people paying $10.78 a ticket is going to pay for everything? Everything has to work in concert, but first and foremost, the filmmaker has to make a entertaining and professional film that will entertain an audience and inspire multiple viewings. That's it. It's not rocket science.
FREDDY GOT FINGERED cost $14M got in 2,200= theaters for an average 3.3 week run. No stars. Pulled in a domestic revenue of $14M. I think I can do better. The Crow (2024) cost $50M, opened in 2,,752 theaters, pulled $15M worldwide. I think I can do better. Theaters want asses in seats. I'm confident I can get them there. Soon theaters will be gone, but there is a window to still use them to your advantage. It's an entertainment industry. make what you do entertaining and your budget or who's in it becomes more of an accomplishment than a detriment.
Philip David Lee
the budget of the film and your statements give the impression that there is no major star in the film. To get the rental you need, you need an advertising budget of about $15-30 million. and then maybe you can at least recoup the costs, if you're lucky.
a long-term rental in a small number of cinemas for 1-2 years and the sale of rights to streaming companies, cable networks and television is more suitable for your strategy.
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I also like to add that I have been working with a group of entrepreneurs for over 25 years to get gaming in to the cinemas - playing with a crowd together a specifically designed (story) driven entertainment game on the big screen with a X-box or Playstation consoler. Therefore its important that cinemas gain more profit than they do today, in order for them to invest and expand, in let's say the future that should have already been there, as cinemas popularity is not at an ultimate high now at the moment.