Distribution : Foreign Pre Sales by LB McGill

This means territories outside of the US pay the producer for the rights to distribute the movie in their country before you make the movie. You get foreign pre-sales by having an excellent track record of producing movies that have made a profit. Having a star who is huge in a specific country is another way. What did your sources tell you about foreign pre-sales?

Rik, Matt thank you. My source sipmly said in an e mail that in order to get a small budget film funded I would need them. He originally told me he could hook me up with investors for a 300 k movie, I jumped through all kinds of hoops, including writing an executive summery and forming an LLC for my production company ( i needed to do that anyway, so salright) I'm suppose to speak with him tomorrow and I wanted to have a better understanding on what the hey he was talking about before I go chasing wild geese... which it sounds like I would be. Private investors was always the plan. I have a couple of more leads. I've met with a couple of producers that came to a table read- they enjoyed it very much, one is thinking it over, the other wants a cut of the film for me to hand it over to his production team who would use a different director and put in some star power... not fond of that idea, mostly because I wrote the thing so I would have something to direct. We did record a radio play under the exsisting storyboard art using the cast. Should be funny as hell, I'll have that next week. I made my first feature on my own dime, it's under consideration at the Los Angeles film festival and the santa monica film festival. In the end, the entire world believes I will get this film made by hook or by crook.... we'll see. Thanks for the advice... words to the wise. :)

Just got sent this artical. It pretty much talks about my wild geese in a nutshell. http://www.filmthreat.com/features/46160/

jerome courshon a stage 32 member is a distribution expert. He gives classes and has a very good program.

Thanks Mark!

hmmmm. typed in his name. Can't find him. :(

what's your email?

loraliemcgill@gmail.com

Don't completely discount pre-sales. A prodCo or producer with a track record of producing profitable films may be able to presell some territories.

That's awesome Rik! Do you know any of those? 'Cause my roladex is a little shy on "producers with a track record" but I'm pretty sure your isn't :p I'll pitch- just set up the pins... please :D

PS my lead is a hot little Italian only 2 years off the boat. She LOVES the comedy- so it must translate.

here's her IMDb http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3652766/?ref_=sr_1

Your source has access to investors - I made the assumption that this source knew a prodCo. My mistake. I reread your post and see that private investors is your plan. You already have a producer thinking it over - does that producer have a track record? You have already interested two producers so you are on the right path. You found them, can you find more? Let me rephrase: You found two already, you must find more. Keep doing what you're doing. Since your source has access to 300k in investment money and suggested going after foreign pre-sales does that source have access to foreign investors? Ms. Montanari has a good track record - can her name bring Italian pre-sales? Worth exploring.

Workin on it! Thanks Rik!

this topic sounds productive to little me ..lol , @ Rik i have this one little question , if you have a minute ,please let me know, if this is close to a foreign pre sale thing LB is talking about , few days ago i came across a US based producer that wanted me to sign him on one of my project so that he can start preparing documents he claims to present to real investors and distributors in the US for my script "That man in the woods " , of course it had a token of exchange and upfront needed first ,but i didn't pay much attention to him simply because he was talking about a future project and yet i was working on different thing , even though his contact is in my head , am afriad i might be losing useful party in this because am a naive thing in this business , , please let me know if what he was saying is related to foreign presale thing or its close to that . thanks in advance Julian . @ LB good topic . i wish you the best of luck with your Dead Serious .

Getting a distribution deal for a project that hasn't been shot yet isn't all that hard... meeting the fine print so the deal is closed is. There are a lot of companies that will provide you with a distribution deal memo. But, you'll have to deliver a good-enough film with enough talent and box office draw to get the deal implemented when delivered to the distribution company. Additionally, you can get a deal-memo for both US Domestic and for Foreign distribution without attached talent. Here's the next rub... If you do you'll probably find in the contract that the "distribution" company will manage the distribution effort, for a price, create all your materials, for a fee, chase distribution in the US and overseas, for more fees, and require you to provide 100% P&A. AND.. the real kicker.. if you make your movie, and decide to do your own distribution or go with another company, there will be a cancelation clause forcing you to pay out tens of thousands of dollars to get out of their deal. So, when you think about it there is ZERO downside for a Distribution Company to providing a distribution deal memo to an Independent film producer since the worst that can happen is they are out a couple sheets of 8 and one half by eleven printer paper. So be very careful who you take a deal memo from for distribution... make sure you do your research and your producers know what they are doing. One other thing, unless you have a track record of delivering commercially viable films, no pre-sales deal is going to pay you anything in advance. You'll have to factor the contract at a bank that deals in Film projects to get any money out if it, and this is tough if you only have a deal memo and not a hard contract for distribution. A full on contract for distribution is yet another can of worms...

@ Georgia you say its not hard , but you mention alot of precuations . "make sure you do your research and your producers know what they are doing" hehe ... funy any way .

so basically impossible for first or new indie film makers. Thanks Georgia, very informative!

no .. you misunderstand... its not that hard to get one. but you need to be sure your getting the RIGHT one with a company that you truly intend on using and that you CAN deliver a film as promised. With these in mind you can get a deal memo for distribution. here's a starting place: http://www.freestylereleasing.com/ Freestyle does US Domestic, Foreign, and digital. I've worked with them on projects and have one deal memo outstanding right now with them and another in progress. cheers geo

Also remember that a distribution deal with no P&A is no deal in the end. P&A is critical for the success of your project and can easily double your budget in one fell swoop.

wow a road map?! Thanks for the link! What's a P&A? Sorry I'm still learning lingo.

Prints and Advertising or Publicity and Advertising (depending on how old you are) ;) Basically the marketing side of the project. Prints are the actual physical film, DCP materials, DVD/Screeners... whatever form the project is shown in theaters. This can be quite expensive to make and distribute, costing from cheap to thousands of dollars, depending on what needs to be delivered to meet the Distribution contract. Each theater needs at least one print of some type or another and possibly more depending on how many screens the film is playing on. The advertising part of the budget is the amount spent on just that, advertising. Most of the money is spent on TV, but radio, newspapers and magazines, the Internet and in-theater advertising are also very important. TAn P&A budget for a major studio release can get up to 30+ million, and my rule of thumb for an indie project is that P&A = Budget to create the film.

oh I have a marketing company.

and a unit publicist

somebody's got to pay for it all. and the Unit Publicists (UPs) provide a a link between producers, cast, crew and the media during film shoots. By generating publicity, they help sales agents to sell films and to create public interest. UPs work closely with producers, distributors and sales agents to plan all press strategy for film shoots, making sure that only the right amount of information is released at specific times, so that the press coverage is not jeopardized when the film is released. This in NOT part of P&A.

okay- gotchya.

searching for money is doing NOTHING for my waistline! just sayin :p

LOL - trust me . I know the feeling...

haha well if I can't find 300 K I can always find a cookie :p

I might need another cookie. I sent my "source" the website Georgia posted asking if I was getting warm and he said and I quote "I have those relationships but on a low budget film with no clearly recognizable talent by the buyers, foreign presales are moot. If this was SciFi maybe, not a dark comedy. Sorry to be blunt but its just the way things are today." sad face, sad trombone.... this was the same guy that told me I would need foreign pre sales to finance a low budget film. I hate this business!!!

Funny Stage 32 offers a company "dream film" to help with distribution. Richard wouldn't steer us wrong.

Of course a sales contact will tell you that what you NEED is the service they provide. The fact is you don't NEED foreign pre-sales, you just need funding which can come through many avenues. As you know, comedy usually doesn't work in foreign markets because it is so often cultural and language based. @Mark if you are referring to http://www.dreamfilm.org/ they are a production company that helps with production (not distribution). On the other hand Georgia's suggestion of freestyle is a company that has a track record distributing over 70 films.

At one time pre-sales were quite common but they have become more rare in light of economic uncertainty. Basically for anyone who is unfamiliar with them. The basic idea is this. You attend a film market with a great script, or better still an attached name actor that will allow inventors to imagine their money is secure. http://www.americanfilmmarket.com/to-attend While at the film market you can pitch you film to a wide variety of executives in the hope that they will give you some up front money for your project.

I would say economic uncertainty is a factor, the other factor is how the film business is changing. My sales agent has a thousand films sent to her a month. Red has made it that anyone can make a film. Why should anyone do a pre-sale with many finished films for the distributors to bid on... on their terms.

Matt you gotta put your self in the shoes of the investor. Let's say I'm a card player, I'm gonna bet a lot on Aces and a little on a pair of Twos. Horror is much better at money return in oversea markets then niche films that the Germans or Asians don't get.

A pair of Aces is good but 3 of a kind beats Aces. Yes a bet is a bet but can lose.

@Cory "you just need funding which can come through many avenues." which avenues?

Matt and Mark you are both right. This business does squelch creativity, and the odds are stacked against me. As in most business. Mark is right, foriegn markets won't gamble on a no name new comer with a comedy. That being said, I do believe the film will do well in certain foreign markets. The plot points are universally funny. They are what touches us as humans in relationships. Men are men universally, women are woman. It could even be done by a cast in each country, that would be funnier, but the proof is in the pudding and I need to find an executive director here, who believes in the project and can father it along and convince others.

or mother it along! lol

unless you have a track record of making films, fastest way to fund an indie film, especially your first. is to simply plan on writing a check and getting your family and friends to write checks... Realistically, there is little to no chance of "funding" an indie feature any other way, unless you have a track record of making a few films. Yes, you can file for grants, use crowd funding and look for an "investor", go for it. But you need to be realistic about your chances and how much you can really pull together. You may want to start with smaller micro budget short projects and work your way up with the contacts you slowly accumulate along the way. Way too many "young" ( as in in the business young") film makers get it in their head that they can just run out and find people to throw money at them, and the saddest part is they tend to get bulls**&&ed by people who will tell them what they want to hear and then send them a bill for "producer" services for the privilege to mislead them. Complete a project that YOUR pocketbook will bare... Then make another... and another and work to the goal of a feature film... You have a better chance of winning the lottery than funding a feature with someone else's money right out of the gate with no track record. This business is all about relationships... start making them! :)

I have made films in the middle east Asia and india and they really have a different idea about comedy and relationships. Was it Albert Brooks who tried to do comedy in India and they didnt laugh. The relationships between men and women in the Middle East very different and again they don't have comedy like US just prayer. Very tough and they won't get a lot. I will leave in 2 weeks to work again in the Middle East. I'm getting serious now.

point well taken Georgia. Of course that was the original idea. My short was going to cost $10,000. Which I can always go back to. I raised $400 lol- through "family and friends" people are broke, everyone's taxes just went up. We have a plan to save and do the short ourselves if need be and yes, that might just happen.

yes Mark- I know. There are countries my little comedy won't fly in, but there are many it would. It doesn't matter anyway, I'm not going o chase my tail and try for foreign pre sales.

I LOVE YOU MATT HUDSON!!!! :D

We keep going cuz there is always a chance. And there are some wonderful indie films out there. Don't give up hell I work in the Middle East and pray an oil sheik bankrolls my next pic. But if and when that happens I have to have the answers and the plan abd the script whem I'm eating goats eyes.

well of course I have a plan. I have a whole cast and crew ready to start shooting in May. There must be something in it if everyone is willing to attach to something that boils down to an imaginary project at the end of the day.

Never give up! Never Surrender!! ;)

@ LB , good luck with your plan , and for the thread i have been following since yesterday , however it looks Georgia and Rik have different point of views even though they are both deriving to the same course , and now am going to choose a short cut for my own good , if i can not have my own track record that can impress them in the beginning of every thing , then every one who will have to work with me must make me have it . any way this business seems to be after experience than talent . lol .

yes LB don't give up , forgive me for poking my nose in your business , but i was just thinking you replace crucial crew or cast to the person they are looking for , or find another producer as Rik suggested in the beginning of this , give it a shoot and see if these investor can let your microbudget movie done . after all every thing is still in your hands , what they understand is nothing than experience , now that you will be there for the next project , then foreign presale will no long be their excuse . .....eeeeeeeeee . any way . i better shut my month .zippppppppppppppp

well eventually I will run out of free ways to move DEAD SERIOUS forward and then it will be put on a shelf. I still have some leads to hunt down and as long as I still have someone willing to hear me out- I quess there's hope. So as of today I have hope... who knows what tomorrow will bring :)

Here are some more leads for distribution for you. Just a place to start poking around... http://www.broadcast.com/ http://www.ifilm.com/ http://www.atomfilms.com/ http://www.cinemanow.com/ http://www.entertainndom.com/ http://www.movieflix.com/ http://www.movielink.com/ http://www.vod.com/ http://www.broadbandbuyer.com/ http://www.bijoucafe.com/ cheers geo

Thanks Georgia, I appriciate the effort. What I really need is a lead to an executive producer with a track record. Preferably one who wants a comedy. Not like the two producers I pitched to last weekend who really only do shoot em up movies and who were only there as a favor to my lead.

UPDATE: I just got off the phone with my distribution rep. He said he's going to call in a favor on his friend who is a sales rep. His friend will analyze the script and tell him if there's any money in it. If there is, the sales rep will then write up an estimate as to how much money he thinks there is in it and we take that letter to investors. If not- My distribution rep says he wants the film next year. So there ya have it, we should know in a week one way or the tuther :D

Sales rep doesn't need to look at the script! lol there's just as much money in dark comedy as horror at my level! There's money in the movie HA!

All distributors are thieves. Sales reps are the biggest lot of scumbags in this business. You don't need a sales rep - ever. The distributor you are talking to right now is most likely a bottom feeder and you should cut your ties with him, now. Pre-selling is a thing of the past - that happened in the late 80's and early 90's when distributors were buying films based on the poster - they neede to fill the video stores. You would need a list actors to make a pre-sale with a known director, etc. I don't know what your budget is, who you have in it or what the film is about - but, I have plenty of experience with all kinds of distributors. I've gotten distribution for 4 - 35mm features and they have come in all shapes and sizes and all kinds of deals and steals (that's what they like to do). If you want to talk and get some free advice I am around. Send a message to me privately and we can exchange numbers. Best of luck, Patrick

sad face

oh okay. That's all been cleared up now. Patrick thought I was still on the foreign pre sale thing. So back to YAY!!! There's money in the movie !!!! which doesn't change the fact that I still need investors lol

Don't let your emotions get tied into the money. It's hard for me too, I know. But that's what I read in your posts. Considering you didn't know what foreign presales are and so easily accept what each person tells you, I think you need to educate yourself on movie financing and distribution now or you'll get creamed when you actually sign something. Read some producer and filmmaker books to start. I enjoyed From Reel to Deal and Robert Rodriguez's book about El Mariachi. There are countless ways to fund a project and many of them are in producer books. It's not the method that you need though, it's the business and sales skills. If you don't have those, you won't have any money. Being a successful producer is a process of developing those skills.

one person learns one way, another- his own. You have one view of me, because it is the persona I wish to portray. "Considering you didn't know what foreign presales are and so easily accept what each person tells you, I think you need to educate yourself on movie financing and distribution now or you'll get creamed when you actually sign something" This statement is condescending and presumptuous. I think you need to find another way to communicate.

I think the fact that he was trying to help you out, and pointed you in the right direction completely negates what you just wrote. I wouldn't have found it condescending at all if it was a message for me. However, with that said I just have to say that if this is your general attitude, going on the defensive over something as trivial and potentially helpful as that... Well... All I can say is good luck in this industry.

I'll add more 2 cents to you Loralie. Don't do a bad job with your film with low funds. Mamy many people send me their films or clips God nless em. The audio trally bad...acting bad etc etc. I rather have no film than a piece of crap. LOL

i agree with Mark , and i think a matter of time also counts alot . if it can't work now then it will work tomorrow. why to worry ?

@ Matt. The comment LB was responding to is gone. The original one pointed to some resources to help her. My point is that you can't fly off the handle in this business. At any time and for shallow reasons. Of course, you can't see how the conversation originally went because posts are missing. But even so. Even if deserved one should restrain when possible. And that's also my point. Jumping to conclusions. Big no-no. All in all you're totally right in your post. But all I'm saying is that unless you're a huge HollyWood producer/director/actor you should check your Ego at the door. And even if you are one of those you should anyway. The business is built on helping and compromise. Unless you're a star flying off the handle, presumptions and ego are not your friends. An I also meant no disrespect with either this post or my first one. Just stating experience and an opinion. But of course, the original post is gone so this entire rant seems rather pointless. @ Mark. You have a good point, but it's not absolute. I've seen many.... many films that have had no (Or almost no) budget and turn out better than a lot of budgeted material. It's all in the creativeness of the people involved. But I give you a "HUGE" high five about the sound aspect. People will forgive a bit of bad video, but they never forgive bad audio. It's the most underlooked aspect of making films. Think of it like this. How often do you have the TV on while you're doing something else. Probably more than you'd care to admit. LOL. My point? You're listening, not watching. Cheers everyone.

Hi William. Do you really think I went flying off the handle? hmmmm, interesting. I didn't mean to. There were a hundred way in which Cory might have been helpful, yes he was trying to be helpful, but that doesn't excuse the way it's presented. It wasn't what he said, it was the way he said it. I think someone said I need a thicker skin, my skin is plenty thick, I just believe in politeness. Telling someone you know nothing about ~ "Considering you didn't know what foreign presales are and so easily accept what each person tells you" was impolite, in my view and I stated it. It presents me in a very overly emotional and ignorant light. That's what I took issue with~ as I am neither overly emotional or ignorant. Just sayin.

Knew someone who did that before try BBC etc, depends on the genre and language, Lots of French companies. You could become your own producer and hire a producers rep at Cannes and other films, but that's usually done after the film is completed.