This is taken from another site, here: http://www.screenwritinggoldmine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=70659#post70659 "I'm a screenwriter of course, and I've been writing for a long time. Not too long ago, a fellow screenwriter introduced me to The Blacklist; upload yer script, pay a lil fee, and wait (and hope) for a good rating to get some access or recognition to the Hollywood Players. I did a little research, saw a whole lot of good stuff about the Black List on the web, and its creator, Franklin Leonard, and decided to give it a go (hey why not? It sounded legit). I uploaded an action comedy (which has placed in the semi-finals and finals of Scriptalooza and Nicholl) and the results came back. My script scored a 4. I was shocked as sht. How dare them? LOL. Anyways, I plunked down another $50 for a second review (I figured that whomever read my script was high on drugs to rate it that low). My second review came back with a 5. Hmmm. I figured that a 3rd time would be the charm and went for it. Same script, no revisions. It came back with a 7 (not bad). Regardless, they say that if you don't score an 8 or more, the script won't get any attention. So after all that money spent, I was A** out, and my script wasn't going anywhere. A friend of mine (who got a 6 on her script recently), called me, and the subject of the Black List came up. We started to compare notes, and noticed a kind of scoring pattern with our script evaluations. We got in touch with some of our other writer friends, and we all noticed the same thing: everyone was coming in under the magic number of 8 (except one person, and his script still didn't get any traction on the Black List site), even with multiple reviews. We thought, "maybe we all just suck," but that wasn't it. Between us all (and there are major contest finalists and winners amongst us), someone should have hit the mark somewhere, but nope. Nothing. Nada. We all had the same common denominator gripe though: our script review summaries (the non-numerical portions) seemed a little dodgy. Some of us got free review do-overs to correct the dodginess (a nice gesture by the folks at The Black List), but even the do-over reviews were suspect. Suspect along the lines of leading us to believe that these reviewers weren't the "experienced pros" we thought they were. Not good. Long story short, we realized that if we had taken the time to read the fine print on the Black List site itself, we wouldn't have become victims of the "dangling carrot" system, and we would've all saved ourselves a lot of money (and mental anguish) in the process. This is what the site says about its evaluators (readers): "All of our readers have WORKED as first filters for major agencies, studios, production companies, television studios, and management companies." Yup. The operative word here is "worked," as in past tense, which now leads us to the following ad posted by the Black List and found on anonymousproductionassistant.com "To meet still rising demand as 2014 begins, the Black List is hiring more professional screenplay and pilot readers to evaluate screenplays and pilots and write brief evaluations. Requirements remain the same: Applicants must be strong critical readers, elegant writers, and have minimum one year previous experience reading as, at least, employed first filters (i.e. not interns) for major Hollywood financiers, studios, networks, production companies, agencies, or management companies. Expected workload is minimum 15 screenplays/pilots per month, though the reading and evaluations can be completed at your leisure from wherever you are. Readers are paid on a per script basis. Screenplay and pilots longer than 30 minute readers currently receive $25 per script. Readers of pilots 30 minutes or shorter receive $15. Apply by sending a brief cover letter, resume, and two examples of previous coverage to terry@blcklst.com with the subject line “Black List Reader” For $25 per script, the Readers at Black List are most likely part-timers or unemployed and destitute college students just starting out, or trying to get a foot in the door themselves. The mystery of the dodgy reviews has been solved, and now it all makes sense. You might say that it doesn't matter, because these are the "gatekeepers in the studio system." Yes, that's true, but the difference in this case lies in the fact that you typically don't PAY the gatekeepers in the system. With the Black List, you are paying: $25 to host your script on their site, and an additional $50 for a read (if you want to get your script attention, they say), and that leads us to this very valid question: Why would any REAL decision maker in the Hollywood development system go through the Black List and accept the opinions of lowly, independent THIRD PARTY "readers" who don't even work for them in the first place, to evaluate a script? The answer? They don't, because they don't need to. They have in-house readers for that (an epiphany that should've occurred to me before I spent all that money). Now you may say: "But they have Hollywood pro members that subscribe to the Black List and people have scored major deals or representation from the site." Ask yourself this: Who, and how many? The success stories are far and few in between. Did the people who scored deals already have representation? If you do your research, you'll see that the most popular deals were for those who already had reps (no coincidence), and for those who DIDN'T have reps that scored, who were they? (Last time I checked, it was a guy (Justin Kremer) who just so happened to have interned for the Black List (no coincidence). The Black List prides itself on transparency (and they're not kidding), because what's least likely to happen (your big break) is spelled out right in front of you. Who are the Hollywood pro members that can allegedly jump start your career and change your life? Read what it says on the Black List site: "The Black List counts over 2,000 film industry professionals AMONGST its membership ranging from major and mid-major agency assistants to studio presidents of production and working creative talent (actors, directors, etc.). These are people involved in making major studio motion pictures and independent films likely to play in festivals and get distribution." Sounds fantastic doesn't it? Not so fast. The operative word here is the term "AMONGST." Out of 2,000 pros, the number of REAL players (the major and mid-major agency assistants and studio presidents of production, etc) that COULD be listed as members of the Black List, COULD be as little 6, and MAYBE as much as 300. You don't know (and you never will) because the Black List isn't going to share that info with you. Now look at the "working creative talent" line. Hey, I know of PLENTY of "working creative talent" that continue to work in obscurity (and you do, too, and yes, they're on imdb). Plainly speaking, they can't do sht for you, your career, or their own, because they're not in any position to call any shots whatsoever, and no one knows them because they're not famous. Now that you can clearly comprehend what "2,000 film industry professionals" can actually be, the Black List doesn't sound so enticing, does it? Of course not, because now it has become painfully obvious that the "dangling carrot" you continue to chomp at by purchasing evaluation reads with the hope of getting "access" to your big break, is nothing more than a mystery carrot; you don't know what it's really made of. So is the Black List a scam? I don't know what you would call it, because they're telling you right to your face (albeit through not so obvious language) what they're all about, but I will say this; it's no different from ink tip. They're all feeding on your hopes and aspirations, and making a bundle of money from it. If you're truly going to invest in yourself and your career and you have to "pay to play," you're probably better off bribing a KNOWN literary agent or major studio in-house reader with a cash gift. At least this way you know for certain that your material is getting to the right hands (and I'm kind of joking and not joking when I say this). The moral of the story here? Writer beware, because as you can see, something stinks here. Even The Bitter Script Reader (a popular screenwriting blogger) seems to have been fooled. It was brought to my attention that his script, "Toby is Now Following You," is currently on one of the Black List's top lists. Is it there because it's actually good? I don't know. I haven't read it. Could it be there by and through manipulated high score "reader" evaluations in order to "disarm" The Bitter Script Reader's usual astuteness for spotting BS? Could be. You don't know who is allegedly reading and scoring your script from behind the scenes. But one thing is for sure, I don't think it's a coincidence that The Bitter Script Reader's script is on one of the top lists. If someone like The Bitter Script Reader were to NOT be on your side, the money train (for a site like The Black List) stops abruptly, because a lot of writer's and new writers read his blogs for tips and a heads-up on what's what on all things screenwriting. Your thoughts and comments?" ~ TheRangeMatters Again, not my words, they are a direct quote from the named poster.
Screenwriting : The Blcklst Scam by Dustin Bowcott
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Seems about right...worked for a solid two years on something only to get a "4"... Everyone I know has gotten low scores... One "script read" was enough for me... Again, be careful how you spend your coin. Don't make others rich off of your aspirations and naïveté.
2 people like this
One script read was enough for me too.
The BL readers are very subjective. The average score on the site is a 5. Is it a ripoff? I really dont know. I do know some people who have gotten repped and some optioned from the site. One read doesnt do anyone any good. Spec scout offers three reads which is a better indicator of your script. I went to this forum you posted above and noticed the guy said his script scored high in CONTESTS. Big deal, contests mean nothing. I scored high in the Nicholl with my first script. Had lots of reads from managers and prodcos. ALL passed. The script was written horribly (just like a 1st timer). Looking back now I'm embarassed I sent it out. The BL doesnt score your script like a contest or score your writing. The scores represent how marketable it is. If you think your script is awesome then leave it on the site and write a killer logline. There have been low scoring scripts on the site which have garnered interest because of the logline. In the end it's your money, use it wisely.
Did you also read this? "This has become an issue of late. So much so that at a recent WGA affair Franklin was cornered by a group of some pretty high-powered writers in the industry and confronted with the many complaints. One of the writers (very well known) apparently posted a script on the site using a pen name and had the exact results the OP here did. Needless to say, the site is going to change. When, I have no idea. But as of the other day this stuff is still going on. The income to the site though, because of this type of word of mouth, has dropped exponentially. So there's that." ~ craktactor
Like I said, SUBJECTIVE. I read an article yesterday saying most of the classic movies would never be made today. Look at what's hot: comics and remakes. I do know they offer free replacement evals if the reader is off the mark. I'm not saying the Blacklist is good or bad. There are some strange things that go on over there with the evals but then again it is a business.
There is a response to this from the blcklst founder, Franklin Leonard: "Hi everyone, Franklin Leonard here, founder of the Black List. One thing before I launch into this response. Apparently as a new member of Screenwriting Goldmine, I'm unable to include email addresses and links in my posts, so I'm stuck directing you to the relevant links with specific Google searches. Or, you can view the thread over at DoneDeal by the same author with the same title, wherein I was able to include multiple links because I've been a regular over there for over a year now, having responded to over 600 questions about the site on multiple gargantuan threads. I encourage you to explore them. That said, greetings from the Sundance Film Festival, where we just wrapped up a cocktail party hosted by the Black List and Indiegogo in honor of the screenwriters of the Sundance Film Festival and Matthew Hickman, our inaugural Cassian Elwes Independent Screenwriting Fellow (but one person who has benefited tremendously from the site. You can read more about his story by searching "Matthew Hickman" "The Black List" "Cassian Elwes" on Google) You can also listen to an interview with Cassian (producer of ALL IS LOST, LEE DANIELS' THE BUTLER, and DALLAS BUYERS CLUB and notably, an active member of the site) and Matthew here by simply searching "Matthew Hickman" "Cassian Elwes" "scpr" Let's get into some of the "issues" that were raised in the OP. Re: Readers. I've said before and I'll say again: All of our readers have worked for at least a year as at least a paid first filter (read: NOT interns) for a major, reputable Hollywood company (read: major agencies and management companies, studios, financiers, networks, and production companies.) Almost all of our readers have considerably more experience. Some are currently working at the companies described. All have recent and considerable knowledge about the market for material at the highest and most reputable levels of the business. Furthermore, their skills as a critical writer and reader are all vetted by me personally based on multiple samples of coverage. We have hired fewer than 15% of those who have applied with at least the minimum level of experience. They are truly the best of who would be reading your script first if you submitted it to any reputable company in the industry. Re: our industry professional members We have over 2300 industry professional members, ranging from agency assistants to studio presidents and working actors and directors. Fewer than 10% of those who have applied for membership have been invited to join. Two rules of thumb we use to decide if an individual is granted membership: 1. Can this individual during the course of their normal business day and work advance an individual project or the career of a professional screenwriter? 2. Does this individual work with a company in good standing with the Writers Guild of America or its local equivalents internationally? Producer who produces non-signatory projects? Not welcome. Actor or director whose attachment would not make a project significantly more likely to get produced? Not welcome. So who are our members? Executives at every major studio and film financier and at least 50% of the production companies with deals therewith. At least a dozen agents at each major agency (CAA, WME, UTA, ICM, Paradigm, Gersh, Verve) That's at least 12 per, except Verve which is much smaller, not a dozen in aggregate. Dozens of assistants at each major agency (Verve assistants, for example, are required to be members and scout the site for their bosses, who have been quite successful signing clients through the site. Richard Cordiner is but one example.) Independent producers with literally thousands of WGA-signatory credits in aggregate (Cassian Elwes is but one excellent example.) The OP mentions that he has a writers group with 38+ members. As I said on Done Deal Pro, I'd like to volunteer to attend one of their meetings so that I can personally answer any and all questions that you have about the site and how it runs. Email me an invitation at any of the addresses on our About page. They'll find their way to me quite quickly, and I will happily accept. On my Done Deal post, I included a list of quite a few links to articles about Black List success stories (and they are only a small sampling, since at this point, it's not exactly news when a writer finds representation or sells their script via the site.) I encourage you to view them there or to check out our Annual Report on the site. Lastly, and maybe more importantly, I'd like to remind everyone that we're partnered with both the WGA East and the WGA West. Were the rather absurd allegations made here even remotely true, I'm reasonably certain that both Guilds wouldn't publicly affiliate themselves with us and exploring ways in which we can deepen our relationship in the future. We're also partnered with the Sundance Institute and Warner Bros pictures. And there are a few announcements coming in the next few months re: partnerships with similar organizations. Again, were the claims made here even remotely true, I'm reasonably sure those partnerships wouldn't exist, nor would they be in such full flower." ~ Franklin Leonard
2 people like this
For my first evaluation I got a 5. I complained and proved to them, with evidence, that the reader didn't read my script thoroughly. They apologized and offer me another evaluation (so not all their readers are professionals). You wanna know what's the next professional gave me, a 2! Although my script at this draft made a film festival official selection (should've settled with the less professional one!)
1 person likes this
Yeah, BL is a total f--king wank as regards getting anywhere. Forget it. They are a members only club that basically exists to give already repped writers/agents/managers an ego handjob and propel them to greater success using YOUR MONEY. So stop f--king paying them. They don't give a shit about your script, or even read them. Spend your coin elsewhere, and make sure BL becomes the dead paradigm it already is ... BARRING your dollars. Shame, guys. C'mon?!?
1 person likes this
Our notes and feedback thus far have only proven that the readers didn't actually read the script all the way through. Like most contests, the readers skim quickly, only choosing one-dimensional 'visceral' scripts. Complex plots fly way over their heads. It's resulted in free readings as a consolation. But thus far, not a great format.
2 people like this
Guys...youre not paying for coverage on BL, youre paying for access. Readers who get paid $25, no matter how experienced they are, arent going to give you the greatest notes. That being said, as someone who reads hundreds of scripts every year...very few deserve an 8 or better. very very few. and that's including those written by pro screenwriters. You wanna list your script on BL, then use a real consultant and get feedback BEFORE submitting to them!
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I understand. However, if the notes criticize something that simply is not true about the story or script then that is indicative that they rated it low due to not reading it carefully or in it's entirety. That was our experience. Some scripts take more care reading. I've read a few of the scripts getting optioned from blacklist. Difficult to believe some of them got into the top 25%. Technically sound, yes. But great stories? Wow, not even close. I'm just searching for good reader comprehension at this point, not someone who skimmed the last 60 pages because they needed to get to the next script to read.
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Dan MaxXx, good advice actually
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Dan M. I hate your advice because involves work. I rather sit on my ass and do nothing and hope the phone rings and someone will offers me a ton of money for doing very little work. Oh yeah and also include winning the lottery because that is always a real good and sure back up plan that is guaranteed to work.
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Dan G - a kindred spirit. This work thing is highly over rated (I tried it for about 40 years). It finally dawned on me (I'm a slow learner) that I'm to lazy to work and to nervous to steal. The town I live in is a retirement community for young people - so I fit right in. Ain't life grand?
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Somebody should send in an actual blacklist script from a prior year and see how it scores.
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Yup, the BlackList is a money pit unless your material hits all the trending, marketable points in the reader's prescribed checklist. Otherwise it's just another avenue to perpetuate writers' self-doubt. And who needs that? :^}
2 people like this
Found this old post. Has much changed?
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That's why I stick with Stage 32.
Vic, not much.
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Nick Assunto - Stage32 Script Services nails it! At Stage 32 we work to make sure you get actionable feedback from executives who specialize in the genre and format you are writing. We celebrate the idea of writers being entrepreneurial in their efforts rather than waiting for something to happen to them. And we bring you executives who are passionate about working directly with writers.
That is why YOU pick the executive you want to read your script. In the last weeks and months we have added executives from MGM, Universal Pictures, Quibi, and just today Raimi Productions who are all executives with incredible backgrounds. And there are a few more I am really excited to announce soon who work exclusively with Stage 32. They want you to succeed in a highly competitive industry.
In fact, I just finished sending out emails notifying the Stage 32 members who received requests from industry pros as a result of being included in our April "Double Recommend" Lookbook. These writers' scripts received a Recommend for both the writer and the project. As a result, we send their loglines and bios to over 500 industry pros completely free. And the requests came flooding in!
2 people like this
I heard someone sent in a retitled ‘Casablanca’ script once and it scored very low. I know times have changed but, come on... (to the blacklist, that is)
3 people like this
I thought I'd add onto this because recently I got a review for free because of a contest. It seemed obvious that the reader wasn't a pro because I had a pro review a script for free before that and the difference was obvious and vast. I mean the Blacklist says a manager reviews it before it goes out but it was filled with typos that were awkward and obvious. It was also obvious that the reader wanted another story he thought he was getting but when the story twisted he dismissed everything after that. On top of that, the same script is literally under consideration currently with a few producers and a production company. So if even if it's free you shouldn't put much into what those reviews say because just like this post describes, the readers, well, let's just say I'm not impressed at all.
3 people like this
When I first started out, the BlackList sounded like a really good thing and I wanted to submit one of my scripts to check it out. But every time I started to do it, "that little voice" of intuition would nudge me to hold off. Now I know why!! this was tremendously ENLIGHTENING!! Thank you for posting this.
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Many people on Reddit screenwriting are still obsessed with Blacklist to this day. I don't get it.
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Blacklist 2.0 is just a way to monetize the real Blacklist.
If you are a finalist in contests that matter (Nicholl, Austin, etc) then I don't think you need to pay a hosting site. So I am a bit skeptical about the story in the original post.
But Blacklist 2.0 is a business, so they need to give you hope and figure out a way to keep you paying.
Anyplace where you pay for access is just after your money. A good script opens doors for you.
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FilmFreeway is doing the same thing. Acting as a middle man or a gatekeeper for an advance fee. I thought that I would try it, but then twisted myself 360 degrees away from. There are other ways to find out an upcoming contest. And then we have Stage32 who are trusting in leading us to toward that important call..
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It's pretty simple in my view. if ANY entity really thought that they had a framework where (a) they had a solid connection with the number and quality of industry folks that facilitated scripts being sold, and (b) they had a platform to host scripts - THERE WOULD BE NO NEED TO CHARGE FOR HOSTING.
They could simply accept scripts for hosting, push the ones they liked to their connections in the industry and make their money by taking a cut of the sales. Otherwise - they are simply putting your money where their mouth is rather than theirs.
It's the same paradigm used by the folks who sell the how to make millions in real estate seminars. Or the - make millions in the stock market book sellers. If the really knew how to do that - they wouldn't need your money now would they???
Whether it is the Blacklist site, Inktip, or whatever - don't pay to have your scripts hosted. Save that money instead for screenwriting software, books, seminars, contests, coverage and other items that could improve your writing and exposure.
Where there's money and hungry people, there's a racket. Basic rule of capitalism.
2 people like this
That's why I stick close to Stage32. Valuable and trust worthy to your career and pocketbook.
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I've purchased several evaluations and received one 8 for one script and two 8s for another. Those 8s got me two months of free hosting, which is nice, and two free evaluations. I did get quite a few "industry downloads" from those 8s, but no contacts. I do know someone who has a Youtube channel who said he optioned a script from the Blacklist, but that it is basically gambling. The evals around those 8s were not 8s, and some were pretty low. It shows how subjective script-reading is, but I think it also shows how arbitrary the scoring is. Two people could have the same issue with a script, one would score it a 4, the other a 6. Another two people could love the script, but maybe have a small reservation, so one reader scores it an 8, the other a 7. I chalk the no contacts up to the script not being right for that company. Is it an efficient, effective way to showcase your scripts, maybe not. I'm no longer hosting because it just gets expensive. Is it fraud, I doubt it. I think it's a long shot like anything else.
An 8 year old zombie post!
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Years ago, the first time I ever paid for feedback was on my very first draft of my first script ever (I don't remember who I went to). I scored okay (for a first vomit draft - I was pleased). Anyhow, what got my goat was the comment they made about my paralegal character: "It's unrealistic that the paralegal meets with clients, paralegals don't meet with clients.' ...That's what they were hung up on?!?!? Also, I was a paralegal for nearly a decade....AND I MET WITH CLIENTS EVERY DAY. Kind of like when you go to the dentist, does the dentist clean your teeth?
That was the moment I decided to use readers that I know, respect and trust. That's worked out pretty well.
PS another writer on here shared their S32 feedback with me because I read their script and it was comprehensive. Worth a try probably!
4 people like this
In 2020, after placing as a semi-finalist in the WeScreenplay contest and receiving three separate ratings of around 8 (including a top rating from an Emmy-winning writer), I submitted my true-life historical drama / adaptation for a Black List evaluation, hopeful that I could get an 8 or above and some exposure on the site. The script had already gone through several drafts based on feedback from real, qualified industry pros. The rating I got back from Black List was a 4. I was shocked. The evaluation was written okay (no real typos) but contained very few, if any, concrete recommendations, and was of course completely different to the previous feedback and high scores it received in the screenwriting contest and from the paid evaluations. I complained and they were nice enough to give another evaluation. The new evaluation came in as a 6.
To me it seems Black List are doing more harm than good with their model, invalidating the skills and stories of writers (like someone else said here, "perpetuating self-doubt") in what seems more like a snobbish effort to sort of maintain exclusivity in the industry, with feedback and ratings that are highly subjective. I understand that not all scripts will get positive feedback, but when you're giving very low scores and feedback on a routine basis to thousands of writers and not really providing much in the way of recommendations, that's not really helping the people you're supposed to be serving. I wouldn't recommend anyone to spend money on their services.
Yes Anna Dudley - believe it!