Anything Goes : Ghostwritesr or book consultants? by Nicole Jamison

Much of it will vary. Professional ghostwriters charge a contract rate and many times have you pay in installments. Depending on the size and scope, it could cost you anywhere from $10,000 to $30,000 for a book to be ghostwritten...which should include substantive editing. There must be a ton of communication between the author and the ghostwriter. There also needs to be a fit. The ghostwriter should be able to relate to your content and embrace it. My rule of thumb has always been, if I don't like it enough to share it, then I don't take the job. Consultants can hold your hand through the project (which is one of the tasks I've done for authors over the years) and guide you when you need them, and those fees are either a contract rate (depending on what is needed--which is invoiced in installments) or hourly if it's just for periodic guidance...and that would be paid at the time of service. You can find all sorts of non-professionals out there who will do it for next to nothing, and you'll find people who seem like professionals who leave a bad taste in your mouth. Go with your gut and make sure the person you are working with is a good fit. Research them, too. For instance, if a self-professed marketing expert doesn't have a website or any presence on social media...then they can't possibly be an expert if they don't play in the platform.

THANKS DEBBIE! GREAT INFO.

You are welcome. :)

$10-$30K is high end for a Ghostwriter.

Have you approached a publisher?

Amy Kelly, No I have not, I was going to self publish it. I am open to the idea.

There are some wonderful small presses out there. My third book will be released through a small press this month. Self-publishing is good if you have the time and money to devote to it. You need to pay your graphic artist, editor and formatter if you go that route. Beta -readers and reviewers are not paid. Then you will also have to develop your own marketing strategy, as well. You have to do that if your going with a publisher or not. Have you been building your platform?

Allison I have an editor, but this is my first book, so I feel like I just jumped into shark infested waters. So any advice on anything is wanted and appreciate.

Here are 2 silly questions... is it a full length manuscript? Is it a really good story?

Everyone who I have allowed to read the unedited version says it is really good. My photographer who is doing the photographs for the book says it has a cinematic feel to it....am just really nervous about it. I would love to have someone read it that is a published author, besides my editor, but I so afraid someone will still my story. This is just all really new to me, I never set out to be a writer, I actually went to Fashion design school, but I had a dream and wrote it down ( about 4 pages) and my fourteen year old niece found it, loved and told me she want to know what happen to the girls...so I started writing more.

I think at some point we have to take risks in life with certain people, but obviously that can be hard. There are a few people who trust me and who I trust. They also tend to send me things with a virtual paper trail - ie. to a regular email address. I don't show them to others or discuss the content of them typically unless I know they are sending things out in some quantity and even then I am cautious of what I say and to whom to protect their work. Even with a paper trail, lawsuits can be hard to ultimately win because of the money involved, so you want to be careful that way. There are ways of registering through the Library of Congress that are affordable from what I gather. It would help. It helps to form bonds with at least a few writer friends. I often get feedback in different layers. I talk parts of story with one person, core details with another, themes with another, etc... so few people if any have all the puzzle pieces except a core person or two. The nature of risk though is knowing it is a risk. Surrendering to that. Accepting you could lose and your heart could be broken, much like in dating. Not everyone you date is marriage. Not every book you write is published, much less successful. There are writers groups that some meet with and that can give you witnesses as well which can be useful. Usually confidentiality is discussed in the groups. Fun to hear what you are developing and how/why. I relate. I have a story that is developing through some stories for some young people as well. It is not my main project. One thing that helps with writing is to not be overly precious with it. Sure, you want to protect your rights, but if you figure like any artist, there is the individual art which may or may not sell well, and then there is your talent. Sometimes what is most important is building the name for yourself as a writer and building your skills as a writer. Theft - total theft is generally rare. People may be inspired by a core idea, but most will not steal something outright. Sometimes what you learn from someone is worth the risk. I spent a week with one writer experimenting with developing a project. It may or may not come to fruition. We have exchanged some emails after. He could take some of my thoughts and ideas, but he couldn't do them like I could. He doesn't have the well of experiences and perspectives I have. It is possible he could take notes from that conversation and do something. I would not be happy about that and could perhaps try for legal recourse, but I would rather write something on my own merits and focus on my own creative process. Also, you can dole out things in pieces to certain people - for example a basic write up of your story concept - just a few pages. There are technical forms and names for that. Not sure if it is the same for that in novels as in screenplays. But you could run that by someone and get their feedback. Peoples' first projects are not usually their best and/or take a lot of work and rewrites. If you have a skilled editor who edits other things than they could tell you things. People often work with things like that with writing teachers as well who can give feedback and perspective from looking at a lot of others' work. Writers' workshops can get a lot of feedback. I don't know about novels, but some people put certain scripts online in some quantity which can have a risk, but also can get exposure, plus a lot of obvious witnesses where the material is. Horrible things can and do happen. Some stories have been around here in the group, but beautiful things happen too. Don't walk naked through dark alleys of rough neighborhoods late at night, yet don't be afraid to leave the house and go to the grocery store, work your job, etc... (Metaphorically speaking of course). Creativity is a journey, don't be so afraid to share with people that you never get the chance to have people help you develop. I have explored three collaborations so far. None of them so far have manifested into anything obvious, although I think they all benefited the writers involved. That week recently was some of the most influential I have been through and showed me what I didn't want to write as much as what I did, but that was key. I had to be willing for it to go really wrong to try it out. I felt like he was a good bet, a smart bet. Make smart bets. Also I sometimes feel safer talking ideas with others who are actors vs. other writers. I get some feedback from writers, but sometimes it is not my genre or not my style and I feel like they can be less clear on some things and not more. If your project is really amazing, then self publishing is an option or if a publisher picks it up then they would likely help you in some way to get the needed support for future projects. There are agents too who would give you feedback (which may just include disinterest - if it is really good they would likely say so and tell you to seek other representation because it is not right for their company. Know the audience. Look for people who are readers more than writers - they too would have less to gain from swiping it. It can and does happen, but less likely. Also... one thing some people do is 'first ten pages'. Many people only read the first ten pages and stop if they don't like it at that point. Some sites start with that number of pages and then you have to be a paying member to read the rest - a good way to gauge interest for a reader. Do I care? Do I want to keep reading? If you give a friend the first ten pages and they are talking about it later and thinking about it and want to know more - that is a good sign. If they don't, either they are not your audience, of they don't get it, which means it is not great. If people are excited and talk about the characters - that is a good sign. If they say something simple and polite, whether they are honest and think they liked it, or blowing smoke up your back side, you may not know, but either way, it didn't make em excited enough to say 'wow, I love this part!' PDF files with your name attached can make it harder to steal and convert to another format. You could do a 'first ten (or 15 or 20) pages' pdf file to have certain people read through or a 'first chapter' for some key people. Then they don't have pressure to read the whole thing and could tell you about your skill and style, the set up. As a reader of others' scripts (on rare occasion),that is often all I read - or maybe 25 or so (which I did last time on a script for a guy who was/is something of a professional friend). The script needed enough work that while I could read further for the story, the skill needs enough effort, I am not sure I want to take the time to read the rest. My time is better spent giving the comments I gave him and his time is better spent working with those than having me just restate the same basic concepts repeatedly. If I were paid I would certainly read through the rest of that, but I was not paid. With someone like myself though, the fact that I stopped reading at 23 pages says plenty. That is something to consider too. Many people who are more serious writers and take the craft seriously, will not want to steal it - they have their own stories and their own work. Most would not want to sell their professional integrity down the river. Sure if they like how you do something or other they may consciously or unconsciously do something parallel - not a copy, but parallel. How many Sci Fi shows use the same basic elements? How many crime shows use the same elements? They come through different writers differently. Most writers are not gonna do more than that. I learned from my exploration with a collaborator that I may want to write a certain rather basic kind of character into my work at some point. If I wanted to do what he and I talked about, I would need him for the project. Find other writers, build friendships - friendships that you trust with people who show character, and with other creative types who are sensitive about things. I have a friend who is a scientist, but an avid consumer of tv shows and a deep thinker. I value his perspective - he is smart and it shows in his thought processes. I have another friend who works in another form of media. I trust his opinion. I can tell because of how he critiques other shows that I like and dislike. We don't share the same views and that is part of what is useful. He is used to giving honest and constructive feedback and I make it safe for him to do so. So I trust him. If you are skilled, you can also see your quality of work compared to what is out there to some degree as well. I can tell how my structure compares to others' out there, because I understand structure. Sure I can learn plenty still from a skilled editor, but I can see it. I study the 'craft' and the 'art'. I read bad stuff and I can feel bad stuff when I read it. If you haven't read the work of amateurs, sometimes that is one of the best ways to see where others need work and you can then see where you need work. If you can see it in others' work you can usually start to see it and feel it in your own. If you can articulate why you like another writing style of another person than someone else, or what you like about one writer and not about another writer, then you are probably aware of some things. When I read scripts, it is easy to tell how many people just wrote and didn't bother to understand actually screenplay structure. It is easy to see how many people have not really read many screenplays and critiqued them. It is easy to see who just wants to say something, and doesn't care how it is said. When I read one friends' scripts it is easy to see how fun and alive they are in contrast. I learned (and continue to learn) through contrast. If your editor reads a lot of others' work and really understands it, then they are working you over for the story as well as the writing style, or they are raving over your brilliance. But real brilliance in writing, like in fashion comes from not just good designs, but good execution. I don't know the novel business. I am probably not a good reader for it for a number of reasons - I don't have the attention for most novels (which is part of my attraction to film and screenplays which are FAR shorter). One thing I can tell you... is that a fantasy writer is not the same as a Sci Fi writer. So to say you are writing fantasy and then need an expert Sci Fi consultant, doesn't make sense to me, unless you change suddenly from fantasy into Sci Fi. So that probably needs clarification in your mind first. Also, if you need/want Sci Fi, then you may want a scientist more than a consultant who is a writing consultant for that, otherwise, you may need them on your first project as well so it is consistent unless new elements are to be added. Also if it is for teens maybe find a few key kids to share pieces of it with and see how they respond. That too would be key. Your niece may be your target audience. So maybe her friends are too. There are friends who will get the creative process. Friends who will get the craft. Friends who will get the art. Friends who may get your genre. And friends - few friends, who may get all of it essentially. Those are rare and you can only develop so many of those friendships anyhow. Novel Writing, like screenwriting is a field that often has may trying to break in and few that make it. So it doesn't just have to be decent typically it has to somehow be special and gather attention. If you have the vision and drive you may just make it. As screenwriters it can be a long hard process and I know a lot of that is similar with novelists. I know as screenwriters it is common for people to have 10-20 written before something is produced. With writers unless self published there are some that have 10-20 written that are not published. Some may really luck out, but usually have a unique enough experience/background and personality/mindset to make their work particularly interesting. I get concerned when I see too much being put into a first project with novels or screenplays. With non-fiction and professional expertise then often people who are experts are really ripe for their info to be in a book in markets that are underdeveloped. With novels in a saturated market, it can be much harder. If you have not had someone talk to you about that at this point then probably you need to have the conversations with other novelists. First time screenplays are generally rough. Some of them still make it, but that is because screenplays often have several rewrites. Novels are another beast. As I said, I don't know the industry. If you haven't read books about the industry, read it and know your odds and the professional recommendation and if you are still fired up, then you may have something special. Screenwriting is often something people 'HAVE' to do - at least those who succeed at it. Do you HAVE to write this novel (series)? Are you looking at it as a big lottery ticket? Playing the lottery expecting it to pay off with your first ticket? Or do you know the business/industry and the strategy and your creative vision and you are working to put it all together to make something magical? Do you know the odds and something in you says.. keep going! or are you oblivious to the odds and just have not encountered them? Long reply, but hopefully useful in your efforts to clarify the quality of your work and towards getting it produced.

Register your work with the library of congress.

Thanks David! I really appreciate that you took the time to give me all that information. Amy, thank you I am going to look into the Library on Congress.

Oh and going back to my very first post, I was looking for a book consultant to help me with one area of the book, in book two in this two part series there is going to be a battle scene between the girls and the evil. I feel like I don't know enough in this area, so I am looking for help in that area. Does anyone know how to go about that?

Usually, it depends on with whom you're dealing. I would demand half up front, and the rest upon completion of first draft. We'd negotiate for rewrites within the first contract.

So it sounds like you just need someone to read it over to make sense of it. If you need a full-out editor to help you with the text, like with a ghostwriter, you'll need to trust your gut, that they mirror your philosophy on the project. What I would do if it's just to make sense of the scene, post some detail about the book and be clear about what you want someone to help you with. If it's just a simple read-through, there may be someone here who can help who loves that genre. If it's more intensive, then you can negotiate a fee.

A battle sequence could probably be consulted on by a number of people. I would post a separate post perhaps with that title at some point - looking for someone to advise on battle sequences. You may want to check out sites like Zoetrope (zoetrope.com) which has networking for short story writers (many of whom are novelists). You may get some good industry inside info there in the 'discussions' section of their 'short story' section. There are probably other sites for novelists talking shop as well. This site is great for the overview stuff (and I tend to invite friends from other sites to this site because I think this one is wonderful). If you look at peoples' work on zoetrope you may find another writer whose work you connect to and then could reach out to them. You could also then ask them to consult on the fight sequence and not give them the rest of the script, just the core elements related to that sequence and the set up, or of course you could just risk, but look to really establish some rapport. A good writer is not going to want to take your work anyhow for the most part. One of the stories in this group about people who stole a project was that nothing they did of their own got made, just the thing they stole. Novel writing is its own art and craft. I think you are great to ask questions here, but if you don't have other groups where you are seeking it out, I strongly encourage you to find some groups of novelists to talk to in person and/or online. There are a lot of those groups around on facebook as well for different genres - like fantasy writing, or Sci Fi writers. I mainly see film people on this site so far - great to have others and we can use more, but that is still developing.

Once you have registered your work, if the story is good, I'll read it for you. Just to echo David, most good writers are really good readers, meaning they like to read and they won't mind reading a good book and most publishers relish a good book also. Get a query letter together and put yourself out there. I know it's scary but it's necessary.

I have a three-book contract with Zondervan, an imprint of HarperCollins, and am represented by The Steve Laube Agency. I don't use a ghost writer myself, but do know that they demand payment upfront. Writing for a self-published author is risky business with no guarantee of sales. I started as an indie writer and paid hefty costs for editing, printing, etc. It paid off because of the media platform I built for myself online over a two-year period (total spent on marketing - under $1,00). This ultimately led to what's known in publishing as a "Good Deal." Best advice I ever got: The difference between a good book and a great book, is the editing. And have a critique partner you're not related to. Good luck with your WIP.

Thanks everyone, you all have helped a lot. I now know I do not need a ghostwriter, just a consultant or other writer friends for certain aspects in the book. Amy-As soon as I get it registered I would love for you to read it. Sherry- Thanks for the information Thanks David and Debbie!

You are welcome. Hope it all works out for you. Good luck finding the right comrades along the way. :) Sounds like you have a fun project to work with.

The trouble with paying for editors and book doctors is that you have to make all that money back from sales of your book. Even $10K will take a long time - and many sales - to make back. The only way to seriously progress as a career writer is to learn how to edit your own material. My 2 cents.

I'm a novelist and screenwriter and I teach creative writing and screenwriting. I've written and self-published 5 novels through Create Space the publishing arm of Amazon and written a couple of dozen scripts some of which have been sold and others have been made. I designed the covers and created the book blocks myself for the novels and through my connections with the film industry had a couple of digital artist donate the cover graphics for being mentioned in the books. The books are currently being sold all over the world in paperback and as ebooks. The point I'm making is self publishing can work. I've ghost written one book for a friend for the up front cost of $3000. It is a time consuming venture to do that so I see why some charge what they do.

Ghost writers and such usually get paid in increments.

I have written for clients and disagreeing with someone saying 10 - 30k is high end - it isn't - it does depend on 1. the material 2. the size of the project and 3. the value and audience.. many get paid in increments or instalments or in 2 hits... up front then on completion... hope that is helpful.

Seconded. It really depends upon the scope and subject of the project. The two most common payments are 1/2 and 1/2, and thirds.