Patrick Freeman's Lounge Discussions

SAG membership is no guarantee of work. Skill, training, who you know and sometime "right place right time", gets you work.

This has been a question of mine for some time. I'm not with the union but I've gained a reputation overseas. Now, I understand that most of the work I do overseas will not be recognized by SAG and that's fine. I came here to gain experience, make mistakes, etc.

Nonetheless, if things keep going the way they do. Fi-Core is an option for me because films overseas don't meet the SAG requirements. Unless it's a co-productions of some kind and even then it can be questionable. And at the end of the day SAG doesn't pay my bills.

I understand that some union actors don't like it when actors go Fi-Core. I've heard of bullying within the union, directors don't like it Fi-Core actors...blah, blah, blah.

At the end of the day I say do what you have to do to provide for you and your own. But take my words with a grain of salt. I'm coming from an expat actors perspective. I don't know the American struggle, not yet.

When I get to America, you never know, bull#$%^ might walk.

I suspect you are the exception, Doug. I do not have a professional career other than writing. You are fortunate to have the money you need to live and then write only what you want to write. I write for money because THAT is my profession. It's not chump change to me, it's my living. I'd say very few people can do what you did. You are the exception.

All business negotiations follow the same basics: The most desperate folks are paid the least. If you "need" to sell your script to be able to eat you're in the worst possible position. If you're ready to walk away from the table cuz you can survive economically, while you continue to write - your position is much stronger.

D Marcus - I'm not the lucky exception; anyone can do it. Actually it's fairly easy for a young warrior. You got me thinking about where I was 20 years ago: During the 80's I traveled all over the country and my "billing rate" was $1,000/day ($750/half day) - I couldn't always get that rate, but I could come close. Today, I got a kid that does better than that. The trick is to find something that intrigues you, then become the world's most profound authority (mine was commercial RE analysis and problem solving). Anyone can do it - even a young ski bum (been there.)

Isn't this place great! Dan moved to producing, Doug built a professional career instead of writing and I make my living writing. Each comes with a different perspective. Those of you who do not write as your primary income can write for love or art or passion because you earn a living another way. We don't live in a different world, Dan, we live in the same world. No need to attempt to distance us. You earned some money writing and then moved to something else. I have stayed with writing, producing occasionally. That is not a different world, that is a different choice.

D, we're all the same - we each traveled a different path, yet here we all are, basically at the same place at the same time.

sound good !

The DGA has their minimums. Average rates would be different depending on the experience of the director and the region. An experienced non-Guild director in New York with three or more features finished will charge more than beginning director in Michigan with six short films finished. The Michigan Film Office is in Lancing. You might want to contact them to get in touch with a local UPM who knows the rates in your area.

Are you looking to hire a director or are you a director looking to get hired?

https://www.dga.org/Contracts/Rates-2014-to-2017.aspx

Anyone not in the guild can negotiate any rate that works for both producer and director. But it probably all comes down to the budget

Of course. But that's not an uncommon desire in this industry. I would guess that every working writer out there has some pet project up their sleeve that they see as wildly different from anything else. I would love to see some of my edgier stuff get made. But I'm also pragmatic enough to know that the path to those pet projects seeing the light of day is often by getting some other, less exciting scripts under one's belt, as well as writing for other people. Those connections are everything.

Push The Medium... sounds like a decent porn title.

I was so happy to see, "Moonlight" win best picture. Bill is right there were some great films in theaters. I also enjoyed, "Nocturnal Animals" did anyone here liked that film?

Jorge, Noctural Animals is on my list, haven't gotten to it yet. Glad to hear you liked it, it got mixed reviews.

Maybe skip the first 3 minutes of Nocturnal Animals.

Most screenwriters are amateur hobby writers and will never have a credit and will never a join a writers union. But - if opportunity knocks - they can visit a writers union site and download a set of figures, which will give them some idea of rates of pay - in relation to the budget of the project. And yes you are right - in the meantime for most writers it's a case of underneath the gaslight by the barracks gate. When you get into the warm - you can pontificate on an ethical code of conduct. Enforceable or not.

http://deadline.com/2014/03/writers-guild-2014-labor-talks-history-strik... Interesting read (if you're interested in the strike).

Doug, if a producer buys a script during a strike they would be violating the agreement they have with the WGA. If a signatory producer chooses to no longer follow the WGA agreement they can. They ONLY need to follow the agreement if they are a signatory to it. That is why I would be more upset by a signatory producer who violates their agreement than by a writer who is not Guild member making a sale.

You are correct in that there is no legally binding "Uniform Standards of Professional practice" between writers and producers. But the Guild contract is legally binding when both parties agree to follow it.

There's a new episode of the WGA West's podcast 3rd & Fairfax just out that is a roundtable with the WGA negotiators... makes for interesting listening.

Most times a strike is a good thing. Workers have gotten higher wages and safer work environments because of strikes.

I answered a post on Craigslist. Called the guy, went down the next day and started working that day.

Should also add your info to as many crew directories/resources as you can find such as geargator.net, productionhub.com, media-match.com, etc.

Join ArtCube in the city where you work. Real-time job offerings. They post long term and last minute gigs.

Thanks everyone!! I laid low for a little longer and found inspiration here recently in taking on directing a full feature film. Getting active on set reignites me. I forgot that is how I got started in the beginning. So I'll take this one along and then see what's next... one of my own or another great script that I find. I love all of your ideas though and find inspiration in them as well as the community that we have here.

Anne:

Just the opposite worked for me.

After writing the Journal of Rudd (book) I started slogging through the screenplay. I was exhausted by the book(!) Just burnt out. So... I stopped. I left all historical-fiction for well over six months.

Came back to it in September, fresh eyes, perspective, fresh everything. Now, I'm roaring along.

When I get stuck writing - I go for a long, a very long walk - and mumble my questions to the Universe... then I listen.

Thanks Jack, that's a great point as well. Sometimes I just need to rest my mind.

Anne...

Yes, rest your mind/brain... but also open your mind to receiving the creativity you need (not want). I find going into Nature, meditating, wandering an art museum, a bookstore, or reading a book entirely out of my comfort zone, works.

If the brain is so clogged with "current stuff", how can a new, fresh creative idea get in - and stay - and be developed while it is competing with the "current stuff?"

Annie - I know the feeling. I've not written anything for months and now it's time to start up once again - I'm a little overwhelmed right now.

I've worked solely through referral up until now. I'm adding links to my profile as I write this, though! Please feel free to click on my most recent work.

Hello Nicholas, welcome!

Beautiful work, Dude! Editors seam to be really under appreciated for what they do, am I wrong?

Thank you so much! I appreciate the kind words, and I'll be returning them after I look around your profile.

And don't get me started on freelance editors! Used to be, everyone just needed some things cut together. After that, everyone wanted us to do their titles, which makes sense if I'm honest. But now, if you're JUST an editor, I really don't think one'll do vey well unless they work for a studio or post-house. Even then, I've been chided for not knowing After Effects, but after learning it, I got a studio gig cutting EPKs for a year, with no VFX needed.

I think you've inspired me to write a blog post!

Hello Vladislav! Thank you for reading my post

Aw man, I have good half-dozen story ideas simmering on the back burners. Not ready to commit to any of them yet, but they're building flavor. Sometimes it's a single line of dialogue that will inspire me so to jump right in. Then there's no turning back :^}

No one really knows from the get-go, right? Personally, I don´t start writing before I actually can see the movie play out before my eyes, literally speaking almost. It helps to have a very visual mind. Ultimately, the execs that read one´s script decide if it´s good or not :) A lesson recently learned :)

Hey Uncle Phil - Every Idea I have for a screenplay must be a good 'un, or I wouldn't have thought it up in the first place. I got desk drawers chock full of wonderful ideas. (Ha ha.)

My guy calls me the "idea machine". Sometimes those ideas are good, sometimes they are bad, sometimes they are so far out there he looks at me with something close to fear.

When I come up with an idea, I put it in my notes on my phone. When I'm looking for a new script to write, I scroll through that list and usually confer with my guy about what might be the most viable. I do tend to sit on my ideas for a month or two, see if I'm still interested in them after I mull them over for awhile.

It's hard to say what's truly a "good" idea though. I've seen some great stories get ruined in the writing process, and seen the mundane turned magical by good writers.

I like what you´re saying there, Jody. I am pretty similar that way. Do you also find that sometimes some of those "outrageous" ideas evolve into something entirely different after a while? That has happened to me a few times :)

I agree with the speed dating analogy Wayne, and the reason a pass was worth it Patrick is that it caused me to get on Skype and talk with my Dad on it for the first time as practice for the pitch. I also agree that no one in Hollywood wants to be first and that they'd rather be second. That's the reason I told the exec I want to direct my concept that he didn't get. As for pitching strangers, I've done it with that concept tons of times... some get it and some don't. One time I talked my way into billionaire Paul Allen's private box by pitching the concept to his assistants with the Chief of Seattle Police listening in. He told me, "Wow, I really hope you get that movie made son. It sounds great." So go figure. I do believe that pitching an exec the day after St. Patrick's Day was a bad idea though as he hadn't shaved and had a background that looked hastily assembled so the curtains were in back of him with light coming through and every time he moved, he kept repositioning himself in front of the curtains clipped together to block the light. Oh well (and no intended pun on your name Patrick). :-)

I just signed up for my third or fourth written pitch. I kinda forget which. The last one landed a read by a well respected film pro who gave me a full rundown on what he liked and didn't like about about the feature script. Please note that ability to write a good query is essential to reach the he next stage.

Has anyone signed up for a second pitch with the same film exec who passed the first time? My drum teacher's daughter debated me today and said I should pitch the guy again who didn't get my concept the first time around, but I'm reminded of the line from The Godfather when Duvall says, "The Don doesn't ask a second favor when he's been refused the first."

You are not the only one who finds paying to pitch odd. It's really just practice for when you may eventually be in a position to pitch projects either in a professional capacity, such as when you're working with a company or as a freelancer if you eventually get established.

In most cases, what you pitch has to be repitched to a higher up and so even if the person your pitching is interested, they have to evaluate whether the project fits their current companies mission statement and their slate and whether it will pass an internal and external greenlighting process. In short, don't expect much. Just get better at the presentation process and try to learn from the experience. Good luck.

Hey, I am the coordinator of Happy Writers who puts together these exact pitch sessions. We know there are a lot of shady services on the internet, which is why we only partner with execs active in the industry and currently seeking material. If you’ve seen our recent blog, our writers' results stand on their own. We’ve had over 100 requests for script reads and 24 meetings landed since February, with 22 of those meetings coming directly from these pitch sessions.

We have to charge for these pitch sessions so we can reinvest in (1) building relationships with industry players, (2) maintaining and growing the Stage 32 website and Happy writers and (3) full-time employs who coordinate these service and handle all customer inquiries.

Remember that these pitches are heard and read by execs, not interns. No legitimate exec wants to pass by a great project, but there is a large investment of time to get through the good and bad scripts before getting to the great ones our community has to offer!

As a member of the WGA I do not believe the guild is beholden to such entities as organized crime. It seems C is going back to the unions (not guilds) of the 1930's. All we want is a bigger piece of the pie. Producers want to pay less, writers want more. Not exactly a radical situation.

It isn't what you want; it's how you're going about getting it. And your'e projecting, pointing fingers, and gaslighting... just like I said you would. I told you I know a thing or two about this. ;)

D - and it's the same the world over... the workers (insert writers) want more, bosses (insert producers) want to pay less, and in all/most democratic societies the workers are represented by a union from a collective bargaining point of view (even if it's now called a guild) and so the circle of life goes on.

CHL - cannot prove that you are wrong re organized crime, but unsavory characters, scorched earth etc just sounds like conspiracy theory nonsense to me, might make for a decent script though ;-)

Not entirely sure what these WGA writers did during the Presidential election apart from vote and I guess some/most were anti-Trump, as most liberal arts types tend to be... did they do something specific I missed?

No, Anthony - not that I know of (lol). I was referring more to the "Liberal Elite in Hollywood," as they've taken to referring to themselves: The folks who came out in overwhelming support of Frau Clinton, despite the fact that no one was fooled by the media's blatant manipulation, and no one voted for her as the Dem nom. My point being that those who can afford $250k plate lunches for Democratic nominees (or Republican - it just so happens to be the other side of the same machine in this case) are the ones sabotaging these negotiations and forcing the members' collective hand.

Yeh well reality tv is a lot like fast food at the mall. Just watching the results makes you never want to eat or write again

If it's Believable, probably a boring film. Are you drawn into another world and buy into an Unbelievable story, now we're talking. Some of the most compelling "based on true stories" are very hard to believe.

I think this is where a few different opinons and feedback would be useful. If everyone has the same critiques, then there may be something to it. Remember though, just because one person, no matter how expert they are, it is still just one person and everyone has opinions! Best of luck!

I'm with JD; many films are unbelievable, especially that one where it wasn't believable that the U.S. government would recognize the catastrophic consequences of a flying-machine if used as a missile, yet they can't stop street thugs from targeting two New York buildings when they even know of their previous attempts to blow them up, and the whole 911 world tower building idea collapses under its own weight. Not to mention the convenience of training the pilots in the movie on their own U.S. soil. What? It feels all too convenient and could never happen.

I think genre drives a lot of the requirements on believability. Sci Fi and Fantasy: You can get away with a lot. But I can't think of a good murder mystery that requires a lot of suspension of disbelief, whereas thrillers, yeah, some are ridiculous. (Remember in Diehard when Bruce Willis jumps off the roof of the building tied to a fire hose? Great fun, but c'mon man, that ain't happenin' in realsville.)

Martina. (Sorry can't type at icon before name cos server brings up multiple names....web page glitch of which there are many). RE critic They said everything about policeman is unbelievable, yet a by the book squeaky clean cop may be equally disbelievable ....aswell as magnolia. Remember Police Series "The Shield" Mackey and others were "more than" in every sense of the word, than the criminals. (It was carefully woven into plots that they went by their own book). Your critic also kept mentioning "Lawsuit", yet we don't live in a perfect world where everyone follows the letter of the law. In real life a law suit may arise from lifting a tin of beans in tesco, but the outcome of a conflict between two characters can have infinite possibilities. I think if the characters are believable, with dialogue true to their world, anything is possible. It all depends on how the idea is executed. Give the script a tweak and then get it out there.

A good screenplay is entertaining, it tells a good story and you enjoyed the process, it flows smoothly and there aren't elements that pull you out of the story. Screenwriting book formulas have nothing to do with a good screenplay, they merely contain suggestions to help you write.

I think too many people try to be critics these days and because of that, these so-called "rules" as to what a good screenplay or movie should be have complicated things. It's very simple - a good screenplay should have little to no grammatical errors or spelling mistakes in order to reflect professionalism. Other than that, it should have a good story that keeps you engaged. Dialogue, visualization, identifying with the characters, all that will come automatically if it's got a good story. If it can keep your riveted and wanting to know what happens at the end, then it's a good screenplay. That's really all it needs. It doesn't need to get any more complicated than that.

The two Dan's hit the nail on the head. Also mass worldwide appeal which is why so much $$$ is spend on Dc Comic and Marvel films, they don't care about story only $$$ returns. It's the nature of the beast and I can blame them, but I only hope that some day this trend will shift back and real human stories will start to dominate the box office. (Fingers cross)Thank God for Indie filmmakers, these are the real superheroes of the industry, without them we would have nothing. So, happy to see that, "Moonlight" won best picture so at least now more people will get to see this powerful "human" story.

A page turner -- a rib-breaker with funnies every 7 seconds if it's a comedy that makes the reader laugh-out-loud, or a gut-wrenching "Oh, shit" if it's a drama or horror; "didn't expect that" if it's a mystery, and so on. Yet, in the end and after the artful craft, it's as Wayne and Dan say: It has to be both engaging and commercially viable -- box office receipts bigger than production costs. Time for a writer to think of budget and put on the producer hat -- ie. cut down on CGI, delete those animals, more locations-less set builds, make more lean those - NIGHT scenes, etc. These days its wise to feature big-personality characters we can invest in and root for... the usual obstacles, stakes, resolve, twists, surprises and shockers, the protagonist we love, that villain we hate; basically, scenes that elicit a visceral response in the reader and carries them on an emotional rollercoaster over peaks and valleys, high suspense and low rest periods. Structure can actually be broken down and made visual. Here is a chart I sometimes do to see what kind of ride my reader or audience might take. Simply turn your Beats sideways, plot Points 1-10 based on the "visceral response" you project you will be eliciting in the reader or audience, and then connect the dots. You can see where you may need a rest period after holding a reader in suspense for long periods, and how you can begin building them back up again. The solitary peaks are surprises or twists, and so on...

Now there's a question that can be easily answered in ten words or less - not!.

Ed, PM me with your e-mail & I'll send a pdf of the script, the logline and the basic character bios. I'm not going to line the script, I'm not going to give you a story board or a shot list. I idea is to see how good you are and give you something for you to use marketing your filmmaking. I'll make this offer to every other new filmmaker out there.

Doug my email is ed@lakehousebuilding.com

Ed, I sent it out a moment ago - the reason I asked yo to PM me your e-mail was so that it's not made public.

I couldn't figure out how to pm and my tech assistant wasn't around . Thanks. Doug I will read tomorrow

I know what you're saying - my tech guru is my granddaughter.

I particularly like his point #5 Don't Just Copy Others.

I'm so sick of seeing the same tired and boring techniques over and over again by DPs who think they're being trendy. Shaky Cam is one obvious example. If I had a DP who did that I'd fire him the first day.

Another one is lens flare. I saw a reel just a few days ago that had 7 lens flares in less than a 5 minute reel. Needless to say I didn't call the guy back.

Me too, give me a dang actor that can carry the scene himself.

I haven't seen the movie but it might be what's called a "cat-in-the-window" shot. Often a director will include shots like that just in case. Sometimes the edit doesn't go smoothly. Maybe there's a continuity issue or something. For example, maybe an actor was drinking while talking. In one shot he lifts the glass at a particular line. In the reverse shot he lowers the glass at that line. The editor will use a quick cut away to fill the gap so you don't notice the mistake. And most people don't notice. But everybody in the industry certainly does.

Has some merit I guess.

Look at shooting two ways. Now I'm not 100% sure, but you either shoot the s*** out of it or do 2 shots a day. Big money goes with shooting the heck out of it. Soooooooooo when you see something like that that was the best choice.

You say to look at it two ways then say you're not sure? I think I'll pass.

I think the only real answer is it was their artistic choice. I'm sure every director has their different reasonings. I know they don't do it for safety though, that's for more indie directors.